Does anybody reasonably believe that it is possible to rectify this at this stage given the players?
What means are available for at least relieving the disaster (it seems to be beyond stopping at this point)?
1) Complete US back-off, opening of borders, emergancy agreements with the Taliban, the massive shipment of food aid, clothes and shelter across the border.
2) the movement of troops across the border bringing aid in its wake.
3) Ignore the problem and let the starve.
Number 1 would be best by far but also the most unlikely. NUmber 3 is what is happening. So I would say again number 2 has to be brought up and brought up in no uncertain terms.
I cannot see how saying this is anymore than saying the truth. What we have got to start doing is being truthful and steer away from what is just comfortable.
Yoshie, as I said your arguments are sound in the abstract. But the point is not talking abstractly, we should say all that you have said but we need to add to it temporal reality.
It is this last bit we always neglect and it is what makes the left so marginal. It is not that our principles are wrong but they are not applied - they are left as virgins, pure and unsullied.
Logic moves towards a ground war, I would rather it not be an option, but it is by history - it is what is never said because it is the one thing which really rubs everybody's nose in the bloody reality that exists. The left does not say it (some of the luny right I grant you does) but the real conservative powers avoid it like the plague - and why ? Because once seriously considered it puts everything into perspective and that is something they don't want.
If you think by saying this I am promoting it because I see justice in this war, or that it is concieved as a response to S11, niether is true - I take it on as a reality which has its own logic and must be dealt with as it develops. I am yet to see any argument that comes to different conlcusions based on the reality of what is happening. Your points as true as they are, but they avoid acknowledgement of the catastrophe of this winter, we cannot afford to do this, prentend that things are happening on another planet - if we are to create a new international then it will have to deal with problems even more complex than this, problems where we cannot pretend that winter will never come as is the case with all the arguments I have seen so far.
In comradely debate,
Greg Schofield Perth Australia
--- Message Received --- From: Yoshie Furuhashi <furuhashi.1 at osu.edu> To: lbo-talk at lists.panix.com Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 23:12:29 -0500 Subject: Unjust, Unlawful, & Unproductive Re: Arguments for ground war
>Yes, if the war is just, let it be a ground war immediately!
1. The American war on Afghanistan is unjust, unlawful, & unproductive. 2. U.S. ground troops are already in Afghanistan, working with the Northern Alliance, & the U.S. government will commit more ground troops in the near future. 3. Public support for the American war, even in the USA, has already begun to decline & will decline further in the near future. 4. Reactionary regimes in the Middle East, Central Asia, & elsewhere in the periphery that actively cooperate with the U.S. government in its war efforts despite the discontent of the masses will confront radical political challenges, & some of them will be toppled -- especially when the developing global recession gets significantly worse. 5. An increasing number of Americans will, following postal workers, begin to criticize the U.S. government for its inability to maintain public safety (re: Anthrax & the like) & unwillingness to share vital information. 6. Leftists who argue for an expansion of the ground war will find themselves unpopular among the masses -- including the masses in the USA & the UK. -- Yoshie
* Calendar of Anti-War Events in Columbus: <http://www.osu.edu/students/sif/calendar.html> * Anti-War Activist Resources: <http://www.osu.edu/students/sif/activist.html> * Anti-War Organizing in Columbus Covered by the Media: <http://www.osu.edu/students/sif/media.html>