Steve Perry weighs in

[kelley]

At 04:02 PM 10/10/01 -0400, Doug Henwood wrote:
>kelley wrote:
>
>>right. but chip says that they clerical fascists hell bent on taking over 
>>the world. this policy would mean their inevitable rise to power once we 
>>stop protecting monarchies and other nasty regimes, no? and, accordingly, 
>>yoshie says that the left must rise up against fascist states. so... why 
>>pursue a policy sure to yield a fascist state with control of a major 
>>amount of oil and, thus, a major amount of power in the world and, 
>>clearly, an ability to take over the world or at least try, if they so choose.
>>
>>now, i don't necess. buy this scenario, but if you take chip and yoshie 
>>seriously, then i'm left scratching my head as to how such policies are 
>>going to foster, in the short-term, governments that won't be taken over 
>>by fascistic forces who are really just interested in their own kind of 
>>capitalist regime.
>
>I think it's kind of reckless to call people fascists who don't have a 
>modern state and a giant industrial machine behind them. The word should 
>mean something more than icky and repressive.
>
>Doug

well, that's why chip calls them "clerical fascists" -- the qualifier is 
supposed to get 'round that complaint. it's also why yoshie says that it's 
only fascist states that we are to engage in warfare against. my point, of 
course, was that i'd like to know how on earth, in the short-term, Saudi 
Arabia and other countries in the region won't be immediately subject to 
the rise of a fascist regime. the goal of pulling out of the ME, i share, 
but it's a long term solution since it's meant to address muslim anger 
which is bred over years and doesn't simply go away. further, i take the 
view that, economically, this is about a bourgeois "revolution" of sorts, 
but it's one with a potentially fascist face--according to chip.

i'm just tossing this out there, as a continuation of my attempt at a 
conversation with chip. he raised the issues to begin with. but no one 
seems to have addressed his claims about fascism and their desire to take 
over the world. how do we drive a wedge, as I think chip said, between the 
extremists and the rest?  what strategies will keep fascists out of power? 
and should we care? why?

kelley