Given the position you mapped out, then the real issue is not the strength of the Israeli-Jewism lobby, but the weakness of the Arab lobby. I am including Arab Americans in the mix as well.
One further question though: if Israel is the scourge of the mid-east for Arab staets, then why not at least unify on Palestinians?
Naji, my questions are not indictments, but questions only.
eric
--- Naji Dahi <n.dahi12 at gte.net> wrote:
> Do you really believe that Arab states have one
> interest in common?? Come
> on. Let me point you to a book by the late Malcolm
> Kerr, The Arab Cold War.
> It details all the inter-Arab conflict during
> 1950-70 during the height of
> Arab Nationalism. Basically the Arab countries were
> split between two camps
> the so called nationalist states (Egypt, Syria,
> Iraq) and the monarchist
> cons states (SA, Kuwait, UAE).
>
> Infact Egypt fought a war in Yemen with SA over the
> future of Yemen. One of
> the many reasons that Egyptian forces were smacked
> really hard by Israel
> during the 67 war was the quagmire that Egypt was
> involved in in Yemen.
>
> Does that sound like a cohesive Arab position to
> you?? If the Arab states
> have such unity why would they constantly bicker and
> fight with each other.
>
> Let us take another example. Syria, the so called
> champion of Palestinian
> rights, is to a large part responsible for defeating
> the the progressive
> Lebanese/Palestinian alliance in Lebanon. They
> smacked them hard in 1975.
> Then Syria helped evict Arafat from Tripoli. then
> Syria sponsored deep
> divisions within the PLO to promote its own
> interests.
>
> Does that sound like unity to you?
>
> Naji
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "virgil tibbs" <sheik_of_encino at yahoo.com>
> To: <lbo-talk at lists.panix.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 10:35 AM
> Subject: Re: Tom the Exterminator on the Middle East
>
>
> > Sincere question about duck rows:
> >
> > Proposition 1: Palestinians are denied a
> fundamental
> > right to self determination (unproblematic)
> >
> > Proposition 2: There is no cohesive Arab voice
> > (pararphrased from one of your previous posts)
> >
> > Now, given the truth of 1, why is 2 also true?
> >
> > eric
> >
> > --- Naji Dahi <n.dahi12 at gte.net> wrote:
> > > Nathan,
> > >
> > > Money is the mother's milk of american poltics.
> It
> > > has been said many, many
> > > time. Money, however, is not the only factor.
> you
> > > need a cohesive idea of
> > > what you are lobbying for. AIPAC has its ducks
> in a
> > > row, so to speak. To say
> > > that there is nothing to gain by discussing
> AIPAC is
> > > astounding. If you do
> > > not know how Israel is able to sustain and
> maintain
> > > american support for so
> > > long, then how are "we" going to change that
> immoral
> > > and unethical support
> > > that denys Palestinians self determination. I
> have
> > > reflected on the sources
> > > of US support to Israel many times. The
> postuales
> > > that most of the people on
> > > this list believe in has big holes in it. You
> guys
> > > suggest that Israel gets
> > > its support only because the Empire allow that
> to
> > > happen. That does not hold
> > > water. There are multiple instances of the
> client
> > > dragging the Empire by the
> > > nose. The most recent one is of Bush telling
> Sharon
> > > to end the offensive and
> > > getting rebuffed since the offensive continues.
> What
> > > does that tell you??
> > >
> > > The idea that Israel is a strategic asset for
> the US
> > > does not hold water
> > > either.
> > >
> > > 1. Israel is supposed to be buffer against Arab
> > > radicalism, but where is
> > > that radicalism??? Did not the Arab states just
> > > offer Israel peace in
> > > exchange for implementing UN 242. Moreover,
> Israel
> > > itself is being
> > > radicalized and Jewish fundamentalism is on the
> > > rise.
> > > 2. Israel is a base for the US to control access
> to
> > > oil. Again this failed
> > > the test. when Iraq invaded Kuwait, the US
> stationed
> > > troop on SA and kept
> > > Israel on the sidelines for the entire conflict.
> > > What kind of help to the US
> > > was that?
> > > 3. Israel has spied on/in the US. you have the
> > > celebrated case of Johnathan
> > > pollard and you have the most recent case of the
> > > Israeli "art students." If
> > > the Empire was really in control of its policy
> > > towards Israel, would you
> > > really think that the Empire would be that
> tolerant
> > > of Israel's spying??
> > >
> > >
> > > Naji
> > >
> > > > Fine- but then the whole ominous Israeli lobby
> > > argument boils down to the
> > > > idea that pro-Israeli forces have been better
> > > organizers than their
> > > > counterparts, which I have no dispute over.
> They
> > > have built alliances
> > > with
> > > > numerically larger groups like fundamentalists
> and
> > > avoided infighting.
> > > >
> > > > Which is usually true of any issue which wins
> in
> > > Congress, so by
> > > definition,
> > > > a pro-Israeli policy indicates smart
> organizing by
> > > its advocates.
> > > >
> > > > At the end of the day, if the "Israeli lobby"
> > > boils down to saying that
> > > they
> > > > are good organizers, I don't know what is
> gained
> > > by even discussing its
> > > > existence.
> > > >
> > > > -- Nathan Newman
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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