More to the point your actual observations were correct. It is perfectly true that looked at abstractly the two state solution is more or less one favourable to Isreal. I would only add to this that a Palestinean state, by georgraphy intmately connected to Isreal, especially the corridors involved, does not look all that much of a compromise from the war camp where the concept of a "greater Isreal" is based on obtaining borders that are more "defensible".
The unfortunate history of the Levant is that it is geographically a place where others have fought, a natural meeting place for conflict from the South, East and North, a long open corridor which has had more then its fair share of battles in the past. Isreal from a military standpoint has always lacked natural defenses, its military successes since 1948 being more a result of tenancity then favourable battle grounds (its only natural defense being the closeness of logistic support).
The small Palestinean state being squeezed into the occupied territories spells the end for the Isreali war party. Normalisation for the Palestinean dispora, self-government and autonmy even on the restrictive basis now on the table, means that Isreal will have to become better integrated into the Near East, it cannot turn back the clock and its present reliance on superior arms offers no long term advantage.
The current situation is a result of Isreal being on the breach of change, Sharon is reactionary not just because of his political outlook but his dedication in prolonging what is an unsustainable position and without any future. His motivations stem from a keen awareness of domsestic pressure to change which despite the polls, is readily to re-emerge as soon as things calm down. The whole strategy of the right is not allow things to calm down and in this Sharon is doing a Bush writ small.
Of course these observations do not act as a criticism of what you have said. I have to admit that I suffer from a tetchiness on this issue as it was just this question which was my baptism of fire of left self-destructive silliness (destroying the Australian Union of Students and hard won rank and file student organisations back in the late 1970's), some old scars never heal and this is my best explanation of my misdirected response (I believe I may have mixed up some other people's comments with yours).
Greg
--- Message Received --- From: "Bryan Atinsky" <bryan at indymedia.org.il> To: <lbo-talk at lists.panix.com> Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:24:54 +0200 Subject: Re: Palestine, aka, The right list
Hey Greg,
Greg,
Just wanted to thank you for reading well beyond what I stated and for arguing against me for things I never said.
My statement was directly in reply to Michael's which said that the one state solution was: "against the best either of them is willing to contemplate selling to their people."
As Michael acknowledged in his reply to my comment, his statement was a bit too 'symetrical'. The fact of the case is that Israel's backing of the two state solution is directly connected to the Zionist raison detre for the existence of Israel at all as a country. However, in the Palestinian case, the two-state solution is merely a tactical-realistic comprimise, not based on any deep-seated foundation of what it means to be a Palestinian.
I still think that what I wrote was a realistic appraisal of the Palestinian vs. Israeli public opinion on the issue.
That aside, if you HAD asked me what I actually thought, I would have put it very near to what Michael said in his reply to me, which is that: "The idea that the secular one-state solution is best and just, but that the two state solution will have to come first in this world, has been consistently argued by Edward Said ever since Camp David."
The strategy of the radical left in Israel has been, more or less, to constantly demand Israeli adherence to at least what they already agreed upon (and to criticize them for actions they make against the agreements), while at the same time, demanding much more. I can disagree that Oslo was, in any way, a moral or equitable agreement, but still point out how Israeli settlement growth and other 'facts on the ground' fly in the face of both the letter and the spirit of Oslo.
It all revolves around the difference between goals and visions. We must all demand the goal of an immediate withdrawl of the Israeli military presence from any and all of the areas under Palestinian Autonomy; the free movement of food, medical supplies, water and medical personelle in and out of the WB and Gaza; a lifting of the curfews, etc.
But obviously this is not enough, and we must always keep consistent with our long term vision, which for any progressive or leftist must be, a solution which will give everyone (Palestinian and Israeli) in this conflict a chance for a truely equitable and sustainable existence.
A two-state solution may be a decent midterm goal, but a 'Jewish' State next to a Palestinian state can, imho, never be either equitable nor sustainable in the long term. The Jewish state has a large minority population of non-jews who can never be given equal rights as long as they live in what is a legally demarcated Jewish state.
To demand equal rights under the law in Israel is to demand an end to the Jewish state as 'Jewish'.
Therefore, while I can see how a progressive can push for a goal of two-states, I cannot see how a progressive can hold a two state goal as their vision.
I would suggest people take a look at "Proposal for an Alternative Configuration in Palestine-Israel" published by the Alternative Palestinian Agenda, at:
http://www.indymedia.org.il/imc/israel/webcast/display.php3?article_id=15736
their website is:
Best to all,
Bryan
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Greg Schofield Perth Australia g_schofield at dingoblue.net.au ________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________ Modular And Integrated Design - programing power for all
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