Obsolescent Programmers

[John K. Taber]

"Ian Murray" <seamus2001 at attbi.com> wrote:
> "Thomas Seay" <entheogens at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Most American programmers that I know (and I am one
> > myself) tend to be either libertarian (and very money
> > driven) or they tend to be leftish.  A lot of the
> > foreign programmers from poor countries tend to have a
> > lot of ambitions to make it "big".  I realize that is
> > a generalization, but it is a generalization that
> > holds up.
> >
> > I think a lot of programmers here in Silicon Valley
> > got a wake-up call with the recent "lay-offs".  The
> > CEO of the company for which Joanna and I both work
> > is fond of talking about how we are all "one big
> > team"...well, a whole lot of "our team" (10,000+) got
> > laid off at the end of November.
> >
> > Which way will programmers go in a revolution?  I
> > think there will be a split. I would hope that the
> > split would go at least 60 for, 40 against.
> >
> >  In previous revolutions, you had to
> > > take over the telephones
> > > and media. In the next revolution, it is more likely
> > > to be that you need
> > > the cooperation of  the computer programmers.
> >
> > Indeed.  And I think that it is going to be computer
> > systems that allow us to create a more decentralized
> > model than seen to date.  I will tell you this much
> > right now: bringing this system to its knees will be
> > easy if we have the majority of programmers on our
> > side.
> >
> > Thomas
> >
>
> ================
>
> It'd be great if some of those laid off programmers sat down with some
> lefty econowonks and radical political theorists and made some games
> that simulated a different type of social system. If 100 people can
> put out "Civilization" or, gasp, "Capitalism II" then creating a
> red-green game has got to be doable.
>
> Ian

Yes, indeed. IMO, Ian's suggestion is closer to my thinking.

First, peace, Joanna. Ravi's post teaches me to word things
more carefully. Right now, the etymology of "bug" need not
concern the list, and I should not have thrown it out. It
only distracts from the issue, the obsolescence of programmers.

Tom, I do not think revolution is a conceivable suggestion.
Power is overwhelmingly in the hands of the System (ruling
class may a more familiar term, but I'm a vet of early 60s
Berkeley). Revolution is unthinkable, except perhaps in a
non-serious romantic sense.

Then, revolution to what end? To replace private capital and
its power over me with state capital and the KGB? I've said
it before, I'm not interested in a change in management.
If it comes to that, I'd rather keep the ruling class we have.
At least we are familiar with each other, even if we don't
like each other, and we don't have to like each other for
a workable system. It's got to be very very serious before I
will entertain a change in management.

The problem in my view is how do we organize work?

My experience as a programmer is that small collectives work
quite well, much better than top-down mandated projects. But
I don't know how a collective can be extended to a modern
enterprise. I'm not saying it can't be, I just don't know how.
I believe that working out this problem will lead to Ian's
different type of social system.

I'm open to any and all corrections.

--
John K. Taber