----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Archer" <todda39 at hotmail.com>
>
> Under capitalism there are basically two classes: capitalists and
> proletariats. The former owns the means of production (and
appropriates the
> latters labour power), the latter does not. It's entirely possible
for a
> member of the proletariat to join the ranks of the capitalists:
that's one
> improvement over the Middle Ages, during which a non-noble could
not, in
> theory at least, become a noble by dint of his own effort. The
> title/ascension had to be given to him by other nobles. Now, how
> powerful/wealthy a capitalist you are depends on how much capital
you have.
==============
1 Adam 12 see the reductionism in the first sentence. :-)
> >just wondering.
> >
> >maybe, as carrol says, "borderline cases make very bad class
analysis"
> >because any notion of class that can either be built on or
destroyed by
> >such "limit cases" is a fundamentally flawed notion of class.
============ Isn't this akin to saying arguments from science shall not count against religious beliefs? Borderline cases are *tests* of the limits of the applicability of class analysis. To evade empirical complexities to preserve an explanatory system is disingenuous. Physics advanced by incorporating manifestations of chaos and undertaking to explain them. It behooves social theories to do the same with regards to borderline cases or are we to say that when push comes to shove "throw out all troublesome data and don't talk about it"?
i think
> >that's what we're talking about here. and here's at least one
binary
> >that yoshie seems to be working with -- you're either with us or
>against
> >us. you're prole or you're capitalist pig, working class or
>bourgeoisie.
============= Well that's the problem with the binary given the kinds of people who owned Enron stock and testified before congress. We're they proles or pigs or both or neither? What amount of owneship of the means of production constitutes calling someone a capitalist pig? If quantification does not count as a criteria of ownership what are the necessary conditions for locating someone in the class position of capitalist. If Yoshie or anyone else on the list went to Congress on that day, who would they have called the pigs and who would have been called the proles?
Ian