> Justin:...pervasive anti-Semitism among blacks.
>
>
>^^^^^
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>CB: To be more precise, there isn't pervasive anti-Semitism among Black
>people. Black people's pervasive criticism of Jewish people is the same as
>of other white people: criticism of their racism.
>
Neither the poll data nor political anecdote support this. The poll data show that blacks tend to agree to the antisemitic stereotypes (Jews are clannish, greedy, pushy, control things, etc.) more than whites or other minority groups.
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Charles: However, what you summarize here does not support your assertion that anti-Semitism is "pervasive" among Black people. "More than" whites or other minorities is not equivalent to "pervasive" , which is what I said is wrong.
And as to anecdotal evidence, which I probably have more of and of better quality candor than you do, I can say for sure that it is not at all pervasive. It is a non-topic compared to criticism of racism. This is a case where I am not sanguine about the polling you refer to.
Also, "Clannish" is not a necessarily a negative attribution. It is a compliment.
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Politically, one can look at at the attitudes towards Jews represented by the likes of Farrakhan and the pre-reconstructed Malcolm X.
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CB: Farrakhanism is not very pervasive among Black people. Here you have an inaccurate representative of the group. It is extremely rare that I find myself talking about Farrakhan with other Black people.
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They didn't say that Jews are racist--many are, although in fact, the poll data and political history show that Jews are far less racist than other whites
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CB: Who didn't say Jews are racist ?
I didn't say Black people say "Jews are racist". I said most criticize racism from Jewish people. But they don't summararily characterize them as racist.
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--Farrakhan said "Judaisim is a gutter religion." That sort of talk rings bell in the black community, and I'm surprised to hear you deny it.
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CB: Your surprise would be due to your ignorance, relative to my knowledge about the Black community. No, I did not find that statement by Farrhakhan ringing true to Black people I know. Judaism is MOST of the Bible. MOST Black people are Christians. Ergo, calling Judaism a gutter religion would be throwing out 6/7's of the Bible, which the vast majority of Black people are not about to do.
I emphatically contradict your claim that that statement by Farra was received as true in the Black African-America
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Sometimes the stereotypes are more less innocently maintained. I was talking at the time of Gulf War to a minority outreach center at Ohio State, speaking for an antiwar group with people of all faiths and nione, it was an antiwar group, not a Jewish one. Our line was a "just resolutiona of all territorial disputes in the region." A black nationalist (a fellow OSU faculty member!) accused the grou of being a "Jew front" and damned me for not demanding the destructionof the "Zionist entity." A NOI guy in the audience actually criticized him in the storm that followed, and afterwards a preacher took me aside and told me he was sorry about the outburst, said he admired Jews, the way they made money for "their people" and "stuck together." This was honestly supposed to make me feel better. I was flabbergasted, rendered almost speechlessm if you can imagine.
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CB: Yes, I would say that this attitude is rare and absolutely not pervasive. Most people have no notions of any "Zionist entities" etc.
However, the sticking together part is emulation. That Black people should do the same thing. So, you may not feel better, but it is not evidence of ANTI-Semitism, but PRO-Semitism. In other words, it is seeing Jews AS an oppressed and reviled minority in the U.S. LIKE Black people, and instead of being envious of success, self-critically saying, "we should do more like you". So, that, in my opinion, is not at all evidence of anti-Semitism. It is pro-Semitism in a more general sense, because now Black people say the same thing about Arab groups who are succeeding through "sticking together" and "clannishness". emulating them.
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The only times I have ever encountered overt antisemistim of the naked sort is from blacks. I don't feel threatened--Farrakhan's no Hitler--but it's disturbing, and it's a problem that the African American community has to deal with internally. It divides us to have racist Jews and antisemitic blacks. I'll work on the racist Jews. Charles, and you?
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CB: I contradict anti-Semitism when it occurs. However, it is not at all pervasive as you say. Secondly,