Given that the British and French have imperialist hsitories, and Italy had a recent bout of Facism in the century past. there is also vichy, Palestine and Ireland from our British friends. Swiss neutrality in the face of Hitler -- cudos for the bravery! Imperial Japan: imperial China, you get the point. Some of the actions taken by these nations were done with the imprametuer of the people, other actions less so. With that said: the First Amendment is something to be proud of. So is the Fourteenth Amendment, the Sixth, the Fifth, the Fourrth. You get the point. I am not a flag waver, but this waxing about a better place NOW ignores the horrors committed in the past. Europhiles forgive me on this, but everytime I hear about how charming or breath taking cathedrals and the like are in Europe I wanna gag. Talk about built on the backs of the peasants! We have that hear in the U.S. -- we (all of us) cannot turn our backs on our collective history which includes slavery. America ain't Number One; no where is.
Doug Henwood <dhenwood at panix.com> wrote: budge wrote:
>On Fri, 31 May 2002 at 2:44pm Doug Henwood wrote:
>
>> kelley at pulpculture.org wrote:
>>
>> >so how is this 'Love America" to say this, doug? carrol?
>>
>> "Love America" is a bit of a caricature. But you seemed
>> to think it important to profess patriotic feelings, and
>> invoked your mother-in-law's reaction as something of a
>> test. I don't know your m-i-l, but I don't feel any
>> compulsion to shape my comments to please her. Convince,
>> provoke, inspire thought, sure, but why should Chomsky
>> or I or anyone have to play the God Bless America game?
>
>i don't think kelley was asking for that, but maybe i'm
>wrong. but you seem to be bordering on the coxian with your
>last sentence above. after all, it's carrol who is always
>on about it how we shouldn't be worried about 'reaching out'
>or 'convincing' people, i thought you disagreed.
I said "convince...sure." What's Coxian about that?
>do you not tailor your message differently for different
>audiences? not write differently for the nation than you
>might write on this list or your own newsletter?
Yup. I wouldn't go on about imperialism if I were invited on CNN (the two times I was on that stupid network, I never used the word). I couldn't wax patriotic in ways I don't really feel. I would say there's much I admire about this country, and much I don't like very much. But global declarations of how this is the best or worst place on earth aren't very helpful or enlightening.
>not turning down sex seems straightforward enough, i mean i
>understand why, but why go on teevee? why waste your time,
>if you're not interested in persuading?
I am interested in persuading. But one of the things I'd like to persuade people of is that this is not the Shining City on the Hill.
Doug
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