On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:17:18
joanna bujes wrote:
>At 12:17 AM 10/23/2002 -0400, Yoshie wrote:
>>Isn't it a fantasy that sex work is inherently different from and
>>worse (or better) than any other form of wage labor?
>
>The honest answer is "I don't know." I cannot really say that I am
>sufficiently free of social conditioning about sex to say that it is or it
>isn't. I have had the opportunity to trade sex for money a few times in my
>life, and it never felt right and I didn't do it. My reasons for refusing
>had nothing to do with being called a slut - they had more to do with my
>being unable to dissociate myself from my own subjective sexuality so as to
>serve as a conduit for someone else. For the same reason, I don't even
>think I could function as a sexual surrogate, for example.
No one -- and certainly not ANY self-respecting sex-positive radical that I follow -- would even dare to force anyone to become sex workers; their point is that those who do choose to do so be given the proper respect and resources to allow them to live out their choices. Just because you wouldn't choose their occupation does not mean that you can disregard their feelings simply because they don't meet your own political standards.
>
>Right now, it seems that there are very few connections left between
>people: friendship, familial connections, and sexual connections (including
>or not including love). I have a problem with prostitution because though
>it takes the form of a sexual connection, it is not a sexual connection. In
>my mind sex involves two free people. Call me crazy. I have the same
>problem with alienated wage labor, but we weren't talking about wage labor.
Now, how is two people engaging in sex not a sexual connection?? You may not like the fact that money changes hands in the transaction, but how can you say that there is no sex involved....unless you define "sex" to be limited to two "free" people linked solely for the purpose of "higher intimancy"?? Or is only monogamous sex designed for emotional intimacy the only legitimate form of sex that you support?? What about the person who masturbates, or the many happily married couples whom have entertained the thought (or, heaven forbid, actually carried through the acts) of polyamory, or the person who admits to having actual sexual fantasies??? Are these people not capable of friendships, or good and proper familial connections, or of having real, intimate relations with others. I just so happen to believe, Joanna, that they do and are; you personally happen to disagree. Human beings just so happen to be sexual beings, Ms. Bujes; and their sexuality, while maybe not fitt! in! g
to any political agendas, needs to be acknowedged and respected. Masturbating to consenting adults sharing their love (or lust) for each other -- or paying to watch consenting adults doing the same -- is no more "alienating" than paying money to watch professional athletes or great painters or other highly qualified artists perform their work. And if getting paid for something makes it "alienating", why not have all progressive activists give up their pay and salaries and work for free??? But I guess, like I said before, that all standards fade away when sex is concerned.
>The thread originated with an assertion that the left was anti-sex, and it
>devolved into the more precise assertion that I was one of these left pc
>prudes because I would not agree that porn and prostitution were liberating.
>
>I still don't.
>
>Joanna
>
Joanna, I never accused you of being a anti-sex prude; I have nothing but the highest respect for your opinions, since they happen to reflect the majority viewpoint among most people (perhaps even among most leftists). I simply happen to disagree with them.
I acknowledge your personal discomfort with prostitution and pornography, and I would never even doubt or question your personal experiences or views. However, that doesn't mean that other persons' experiences which don't match yours are any less worthwile or relevant; or that people who have a more positive viewpoint of sexual entertainment or the sex industry -- or those who happen to wish to analyze and/or reform it in the context of an overall progressive, sex-positive context -- do not deserve a more open-minded and less-judgemental airing of their beliefs or philosophies.
And finally....porn and prostitution may not be liberating to you, Joanne; but others who have been in the business have a different opinion....and they should be listened to as well. Shall I give you the addresses to the websites of Susie Bright, or Nina Hartley, or Dr. Carol Queen -- three gifted leftist sex-positives -- to give the counter-view???
The defense -- hopefully, and finally -- rests.
:-)
Anthony
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