> On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, Brian Siano wrote:
>
>> And when you say that people will "most likely wear the kind of
>> clothes that his/her peer culture expects," then they are _limiting
>> themselves_ more than anything else.
>
> What is this? Ayn Rand? The true individual lives his own life,
> and if a person's weak-willed enough to be influenced by social
> forces, we should blame the individual for lack of independence?
Who's blaming people for being 'weak-willed?' I'm pointing out that, if people conform, it's because they are agreeing to do so. I don't "blame" them for anything.
> You seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that social
> relations make possible your individuality; social relations
> do not just influence the "weak-willed".
>
> This is like arguing with a fundamentalist about the existence
> of God.
You seem to be making an awful lot out of the observation that choice is influenced by social and external factors. Well, _duh_-- most people _know_ that already. I haven't said much about your comments along this line because a) it's not an especially brilliant insight, and b) you seem to think that anyone who disagrees with you has some idealized, extreme, Ayn Rand vision of "free will" and "choice." But you're arguing against a straw man here.
>> This is _gibberish_. Do you really think we live in some kind of gulag,
>> where choice is impossible, where variety doesn't exist, and where
>> abundance is just some trick concocted by marketing experts? Why would
>> you even _want_ to believe this?
>
> Why would you want to ignore how social relations have shaped your
> thinking and your behavior? (And again, if you take this as an
> insult that you're a mindless sheep, you've not understood any
> of the posts in this thread.)
As I've said, I haven't paid much attention to your comments in this thread.
Consider that you've immediately jumped to the assumption that I'm some sort of Randroid with simplistic notions of free will and choice and the like. Sorry, kid, but I'm not this comic-book fantasy that you seem to need. I just don't buy into Wojtek's insistence that choice is impossible, that people have no options, and that they're incapable of exploring them.