> >>I am not pitting anyone against anyone else. The professional and
> >>the laboring class are already in competition.
> >
> >Not so, as the national labor market is segmented. If Martin Jay,
> >for instance, had become a longshoreman, rather than a professor of
> >history at US Berkeley, he would have been competing with other
> >longshoremen, though in this trade competition would have been
> >limited on the West Coast by one of the most powerful and left-wing
> >unions in the United States. Longshoremen and professors of history
> >do not directly
>
>Not directly, as you put it.
>
>In a world of limited resources everyone is in competition with
>everyone else. The maintenance staff at VT is in competeition with
>the faculty, the faculty is in competition with Richmond and
>corporate donors, unionized workers are in competition with nonunion
>workers in other industries, etc ec. This seems self-evident.
That's not at all self-evident: Martin Jay is not competing with longshoremen for the job of longshoring, and longshoremen are not competing with Jay for the job of teaching history at a university; when Jay does compete, he competes with other professors and would-be professors of history (competition in this trade is limited by the apprenticeship model of production of college professors), and when longshoremen compete, they compete with other longshoremen and would-be longshoremen (competition in this trade is limited by union power).
> >compete with one another in the same segment of the
> >national labor market. For the welfare of longshoremen and all other
> >workers whose job requirements do not specify a PH.D. in history, it
> >was a good thing that Jay and other professors of history did not
> >choose to go into their trades.
>
>I am confused. How would PHD-weilding job applicants drive
>longshoremen out of work? What bearing does a PHD have on hauling
>heavy shit around?
What if Martin Jay had decided not to get his Ph.D. in history and instead chosen to become a longshoreman? Then, he would be today competing with other longshoremen. Fortunately for longshoremen, he decided not to enter into their trade, thus diminishing competition in it by one person. The more individuals in the same trade, the more competition in it.
> >What competition exists between workers of different strata and
> >segments takes place indirectly through the budget allocations of the
> >federal, state, and local governments, often in times of recessions
> >and cutbacks (like now).
>
>Both in the market and through the public sector. I'm sorry but I
>can't entirely buy your theory of segregated labor markets. A 500k
>CEO salary does not come from the expropriated labor of other, less
>successful CEOs.
No professor of history -- not even the most celebrated -- gets an annual salary of $500,000.
***** The 2001-02 Salary Report: History Gains Some Ground, but Job Market Is Taking a Toll By Robert B. Townsend
...According to the annual salary survey conducted by the College and University Personnel Association-Human Resources (CUPA-HR), average salaries for historians at private colleges and universities rose 2.8 percent, to $58,050, while average pay at public institutions rose 3.0 percent, to $58,106. 1
...Salaries for faculty members in all fields at private institutions rose by 2.7 percent, to $60,289....The average salary for faculty in all fields [at public colleges and universities] was $60,893....
The CUPA-HR data does not provide discipline-level information on the salaries for part-time faculty. However, according to the most recent data collected by the AHA, average salaries for faculty paid by the course stood at $3,109 per course in 2000-01. 3
<http://www.theaha.org/Perspectives/Issues/2002/0210/0210new2.cfm> *****
Longshoremen on the West Coast, on the average, get paid better than history professors -- see below for excerpts from two articles posted @ LabourNet & ILWU + MaxSpeak's entry "On the Waterfront" with links to the ILWU contracts (July 1, 1999 -- July, 1, 2002) of West Coast longshoremen (@ <http://www.pmanet.org/LaborAgreements/Pclcd.pdf>), clerks (@ <http://www.pmanet.org/LaborAgreements/Pcccd.pdf>), walking bosses and foremen (@ <http://www.pmanet.org/LaborAgreements/PCWBFA.pdf>), and watchmen (@ <http://www.pmanet.org/LaborAgreements/watchmen_1999.pdf>):
***** Labor talks open on the docks Mark Edward Nero Long Beach Press Telegram 6 May 2002
...The clerk jobs at stake averaged wages of $118,825 in 2001, compared with $80,000 for longshoremen and $158,000 for foremen.
The ILWU represents almost 6,000 full-time longshoremen and other workers throughout Southern California, mainly at the ports of Long Beach and Los Angeles, plus an additional 4,000 part-time workers....
<http://www.labournet.net/docks2/0205/ilwupma1.htm> *****
***** ...The wage increases in the package are more modest than the pension increases. The longshoremen's basic wage, $27.50 an hour, will rise by $3 an hour, or almost 11 percent, over six years. With premiums, night differentials and overtime added, longshoremen now earn nearly $100,000 a year on average....
<http://www.ilwu.org/solidarityday/NYTimes20021125.htm> *****
Max Sawicky, "On the Waterfront" (10 Oct 2002): <http://maxspeak.org/gm/archives/00000594.html>.
> >The power elite love to pit public sector
> >workers (including college professors) against "taxpayers,"
>
>It's a dirty trick, I know. But as I hope you'll recognize, this
>false right-wing "populism" cynically exploits grievances that are
>not entirely imaginary.
What real grievances do longshoremen and other workers have against professors of history and other college professors, and vice versa, aside from competition for tax dollars to fund higher education and other branches of social services?
> >Etc. Falling for faux-populist demagogues only hurts us
> >all, however.
>
>Right. We also hurt ourselves by assuming that rightwing populism
>depends on nothing more thannothing more than imaginary grievances,
>racism and hatred of intellectuals.
I don't see any evidence that the majority of longshoremen and other workers in general have any particular grievances against college professors (aside from competition in government budget allocations) or find them to be racist or hate them for being "intellectuals." I suppose that you assume that they do, but where's evidence from the real world that they _generally_ do? Assumptions, anecdotes, etc. do not suffice. Please present the sort of evidence that would allow us to make valid generalizations.
>Why do you think it's so hard to get people to unionize and organize
>across professional lines? Why won't skilled workers throw in with
>unskilled workers?
Even those who have trade union consciousness don't necessarily have class consciousness, and it is the latter that makes us realize the material ground for solidarity between "skilled" and "unskilled" workers.
Yoshie