andie nachgeborenen wrote:
>
> >
> the question is. . . rather whether or
> > not the writings of Marx
> > are heavily [more so than not] influenced by
> > economic determinism, and
>
> Sure they were, though this can mean several things,
> as I have observed, distinguished three relatively
> unconnected propositions that might be characterized
> that way.
Actually, the very word "economic" here distorts Marx and the thought of many marxists. Think rather of the activities through which humans produce and reproduce the conditions of their existence. Then think of "economics" as referring purely to the organization of production under capitalism.
"Determinism" is also not a clear concept. Norman Geras suggests "constraint," and offers as a hypothetical instance being attached by a chain to a pole. One's movements are _not_ strictly determined, but they are constrained. We are, of course, constrained by but not determined by natural forces. We can't choose to jump off a 10 story building and float to the ground. We can't run at 60mph, and if we desire or need to travel at that rate we must have resort to various technologies, which themseles are subject to various constraints.
We are constrained in our choices and possibilities by the conditions, both physical and social, under which and through which we produce and reproduce our lives. Travel dependent on horses or wind exercises certain constraints. Air travel and the immensely complicated process of social and material relations which it implies place different constraints on us.
I think you are wasting your time, Justin, in arguing with people who only want to have a label to put on what they don't like so they can forget about it.
Endless chatter about "determinism" is childish.
Carrol