------- Forwarded message ------- From: Dennis Perrin <dperrin at comcast.net> To: debsian at pacbell.net Subject: Proyect Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:54:14 -0500
> Hey Michael!
>
> I notice that you, me and Nathan Newman are being trashed at Proyect's
> site.
>
> http://www.columbia.edu/~lnp3/msg24044.html
>
> http://www.columbia.edu/~lnp3/msg24054.html
>
> What started this (apart from LP's monomania re LBO, Doug and me)?
>
> Dennis
Dennis was a staffer @ the left media warchdog group FAIR in the 90's. In one
of his lbo-talk posts hementioned a meeting with Chomsky and Michael Parenti , when Parenti had a position with the left think tank IPS, after the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan. Parenti, explicitly supported the Soviets killing every Afghan they could, whether theocratic mujahadeen or maoist (of which there were quite a few). Thank gawd, his son, Christian Parenti, who I know, volunteers for the anarcho-communist AK Press table at SF demos. Christian, btw, has a good book from Verso on the prison- industrial complex, which is more effective agitpropping muckraking than say the Frankfurt School neo-marxist work of Otto Kirscheimer in his work on imprisonment and class structure and domination. Now on to the thread...Here is another post from Proyectloonlandia about those perfidious red-baiters, Nathan, Dennis and me. The book by Kelman, btw, "When Push Comes To Shove, " btw, has a rancid ultra-left statement by Jared Israel of Harvard PLP,""The assasination of Martin Luther King was a great step forward in the liberation struggle of Black people." Pg. 237.J. Israel, founder of Harvard PL and a leader of the University Hall occupation.) Lou Proyect, encouraged Jared to start his pro-Milosevic website, The Emperors New Clothes. Now that Jared reveals his Zionist positions, Lou and co. have turned on Jared. Another post from Proyect list... To: marxism at lists.panix.com Subject: Re: Sick matters From: Louis Proyect <lnp3 at panix.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:26:42 -0500 References: <000f01c2bb16$5ea0db30$b070fa43 at intel> Reply-To: marxism at lists.panix.com Sender: owner-marxism at lists.panix.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0
> Pugliese:
>
> "Ah yes, Lou Paulsen of the Chicago branch of the
> Workers World Party.
> That Lou was on Doug Henwood's lbo-talk list for a
> while last yr. Under a multi-tendency polemical
> barrage
> from my friend, Thomas Seay, an ex-maoist from the CWP
> now a libertarian socialist who translates texts by
> Toni Negri, anarchist Chuck Munson of the Black Bloc,
> Dennis Perrin who used to work for the media watchdogs
> FAIR, me and many others, Paulsen was unable to defend
> such historical/ideological positions of the WWP as
> their support for the suppression of the Tienanmen
> Square students, the crushing of the Hungarian Revolt
> in '56, support for Milosevic..."
Here's an example of the "polemics" Dennis Perrin used on Henwood's list:
>> Yeesh. I click on the streaming video and who do I see first? Why,
Larry Holmes of the fascist Workers World Party, the folks who backed Chinese
state violence in Tienanmen Square. (I see that Holmes has been working on his Farrakhan impression.) Must we link arms with assholes like these? parasites who have no popular support but who latch onto any movement they can to advance their twisted authoritarian agenda? Fuck them and Ramsey Clark. DP<< Until Perrin unsubbed from Henwood's list to complete work on a book that is certainly destined for the B&N remainders bin, this was the sort of thing he had been writing for months against people like Lou Paulsen, Carroll Cox and Yoshie Furuhashi--3 of the few more outspoken Marxists that kept up a residence there. When Henwood booted Charles Januzzi for a much milder infraction, the only conclusion one could draw is that he was creating a list hospitable to red-baiters, for that's the only word that can describe the sort of trash above. A lot of this junk is written from the standpoint of "libertarian socialism", autonomist Marxism or anarchism. As far as I'm concerned, it is old fashioned anti-Communism and becoming more virulent day by day as a new 1914 takes shape. -- The Marxism list: www.marxmail.org Re: The response by Pugliese ['50s/'60s Redbaiting]
To: marxism at lists.panix.com Subject: Re: The response by Pugliese ['50s/'60s Redbaiting] From: Jim Farmelant <farmelantj at juno.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:28:03 -0500 Reply-To: marxism at lists.panix.com Sender: owner-marxism at lists.panix.com
Pugliese sort of reminds me of Steve Kelman who back in 1970 wrote a book *Push Comes to Shove* about the 1969 student strike at Harvard. Kelman (now a days a professor at the Kennedy School of Government) was back then a leader of the small YPSL chapter at Harvard, and a most notorious redbaiter, much like his heroes, Sidney Hook and Irving Howe. Such people would rather see progressive movements destroyed rather than see any commies make any political gains. Of course back then there was plenty of craziness to go around on all sides, but the redbaiting of people like Kelman was certainly one part of the mix. I am afraind that Pugliese follows in this same ignoble tradition. Jim F.
Kelman, fought a battle, probably hopeless in the context of the growing
ultra- leftist irrationalism in response to the genocidal slaughter of the
USG in the Vietnam War, against PLP and what was soon to become Weatherman.
Like the young kids in SDS circa the Port Huron Statement that mistakenly
thought the sclerosis of the right-wing social democracy of the LID elders
could be broken by dropping the anti-totalitarian/anti-Communist exclusion
clause of SLID/SDS and taken an agnostic anti-anti-communist line re:
cooperation with the Labor Youth League/YCL, only a half decade later to
see SDS destroyed by the colonization of SDS by PLP, we, need to draws
lines of demarcation (to use Comrade Lenin's phraseology from, "The
Proletarian Revolution and the Renegade Kautsky, " ?)
I've always for the last 25 yrs. since I became a radical @ the age of 14
("I Was A Teenage Marxist, " starring...) trying to maintain a balance
between anti-capitalism and anti-Stalinism, in the manner of the Third Camp
of a A.J. Muste or the Shactman before his right-turn. Proyect, friend of
Hunter (and alas, David) in his venom, despite, his Trotskyist
socialization in the SWP from '67 onwards till he quit, has taken up the
worst aspects of Trotsky's thought, derived from LDT's polemics on Ethiopa
and the Italian invasion from the mid-30's when Leon said that even a
reactionary, feudal regime like Salassie's was "objectively" anti-
imperialist. Like those these days in WWP and they allies, who in the name
of "unity" attempt to suppress criticism from the left with demogogy about
red-baiting. I expect the USG, as in Operation Phoenix which killed
thousands of Vietnamese Communists, the US Embassy in Jakarta providing
lists of Communists to the Indonesian military in the '65 coup that killed
500,000 or it's complicity in Operation Condor of the military
dictatorships of the S. American southern cone, to fulfill a counter-
revolutionary role in killing as many leftists as they and their rightist
allies can. That on the Left, still in 2003, after Kronstadt, the Purge
trials and the GULAG, the wholesale slaughter of Communists by the Chinese
regime during the GPCR and Tienanmen Square, there can still be apologists
for authoritarian leftists who have slaughtered leftists of all ideological
tendencies (including more than a few loyal Stalinists at thge height of
the insanity in '37 and '38), is a politico-moral outrage.
Final comment to Jim F. and Lou et. al. Harry Cleaver of aut-op-sy and
author of one of the best introductions to Capital, Vol. One, "Reading
Capital Politically, " and the libertarian communist and autonomist marxist
traditions and Chuck Munson aka ChuckO, the anarchist Black Bloc'cer,
despite your slander ovedr the yrs. are hardly anti-communists in objective
alliance with Richard Perle or whoever you allege in your fantastic
imaginations.
Michael Pugliese
P.S. Nathan Newman spent a few yrs. as a cadre for Committees of
Correspondence in the early 90's when he lived in the East Bay. He doesn't
need your lessons from the, "Little Lenin Library." I've known and liked
some of the CofC/CCDS'ers, like Giulana Milanese and later Dean Ferguson,
from the time I worked with them, along with Freedom Road Socialist Org.
(RIP, Mike Conan), and Solidarity in putting together a big conference in
'92 on the Future of Socialism which brought together about 1500 folks some
of whom had not spoken in eons due to old bitter intra-left battles dating
from the New and Old Lefts. --- Nathan Newman <nathan at newman.org> wrote:
> Geez Hunter-- you really are an old fart with a
> playground sense of
> response.
>
> How about I'm rubber and you're glue.
>
> You were the one who brought up the 1950s and
> 1960s-- pulling out your long
> dick of activism as if that settles any political
> disagreement. I get
> really bored that you old farts play these games,
> which is one reason I
> haven't posted much.
>
> But your whole defense of the Workers World Party
> while saying, hey I didn't
> say anything about their political positions, is
> just the exact Orwellian
> response that makes these exchanges so silly.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hunter Gray" <hunterbadbear at earthlink.net>
> To: "Hunter Gray" <hunterbadbear at earthlink.net>
> Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 2:00 PM
> Subject: [ASDnet] Nathan Newman joins Pugliese in
> Redbaiting
>
>
> Note by Hunterbear:
>
> Don't try that one on me, Nathan Newman. Come to
> think of it, we haven't
> heard much from you lately. Your color -- Yellow --
> does show well these
> days.
>
> My post was focused solely on Governor Ryan's
> courageous action, Pugliese's
> vilifying and divisive attacks, ASDnet's well-known
> sterility, and DSA's
> growing impotence. I've said nothing about Hungary
> or any of those other
> issues. Take those up with others, if you wish.
>
> Unless something really unusual develops, this is my
> last comment on this
> Manifestation.
>
> Hunter [Hunterbear] DSA, Solidarity, SPUSA, CCDS --
> and three labor unions
>
> "Nathan Newman writes:
>
> Crying "redbaiting" is just a form of mccarthyism
> within the left, an
> attempt to shut people up when they raise criticism
> of policies. Michael
> has no power to take jobs away from Workers World
> members or throw them in
> jail-- he is criticizing their support for dictators
> and thugs around the
> world.
>
> You may find the Soviet suppression of Hungarians in
> 1968, the shooting of
> Czechs in the streets of 1968, and the murder of
> students in Beijing in 1989
> to be dandy service to the revolution, but Michael
> has the perfect right
> (and I support him) in arguing that those in the
> WWP who applaud the murder
> of other leftists should not be considered comrades.
>
> -- Nathan Newman"
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hunter Gray" <hunterbadbear at earthlink.net>
> To: "Hunter Gray" <hunterbadbear at earthlink.net>
> Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 1:36 PM
> Subject: The response by Pugliese ['50s/'60s
> Redbaiting]
>
>
> Note by Hunterbear:
>
>
-- Michael Pugliese
I got an axe-handle pistol with a graveyard frame. It shoots tombstone bullets wearing balls and chains. I'm drinking TNT. I'm smokin' dynamite. I hope some screwball start's a fight, 'cause I'm ready, ready, ready
Muddy Waters, "I'm Ready."