[lbo-talk] Chomsky: USA "best country in the world"

Joseph Wanzala jwanzala at hotmail.com
Tue Nov 4 14:27:17 PST 2003


Boddi wrote:-

"I'm sure we would agree that many drug crimes represent unnecessary convictions, but I would suggest that one of the problems in the black community is that too many really villainous people roam about the ghetto and the police are indifferent. Look at the murder solution rate when the victim is black. Clearly these are situations where a crime has been committed and I certainly find it disturbing that the police are not doing enough to bring murderers to justice."

One cannot really talk about the ineffectiveness of the police without talking about the increasing corruption and criminalization of police, the lack of community policing and the distrust of the police by people in the 'ghetto'. As we have seen in New York, the notorious Ramparts police dept. in Los Angeles (portrayed by Denzel Washington in 'Training Day' and the recent 'Riders' case in Oakland where rogue cops were aquitted by an all-white up-county jury, the police forces are increasingly showing themselves not to be principally concerned with 'crime-prevention'. Indeed, many of the people villanous people 'roam(ing) the ghetto' are in fact the police. We also cannot ignore the obvious relationship between crime and low employment and poor public education.

Police cannot really do much to prevent crime - to really prevent crime you have to address the structural causation factors. Instead, policymakers seem more interested in providing fodder for the ever expanding prison industry.

Joe W.


>From: "boddhisatva" <boddhisatva at netzero.net>
>Reply-To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
>Subject: RE: [lbo-talk] Chomsky: USA "best country in the world"
>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:35:33 -0800
>
>
>
>
> I wrote:
>
> >How is our incarceration rate a function of our conception of rights?
> >You think countries that have *fewer* protections against unreasonable
> >searches incarcerate fewer people? You think all those guys in jail were
> >falsely accused?
>
> Doug wrote:
> "There's something deeply wrong with a society, esp one that thinks
>itself the freest on earth, that jails so many of its citizens. A
>black male faces a 25% lifetime chance of doing time. That's
>seriously fucked up. We do have some technical conception of "rights"
>and a fair trial, but entirely too many things are criminalized, and
>too many people are driven to "crime," either out of poverty,
>alienation, or madness."
>
> Yes, but Doug that 25% probability does not represent laughing chance.
>Certainly we can agree that a great preponderance of the black males who do
>get locked up do the crimes they are accused of. I'm sure we would agree
>that many drug crimes represent unnecessary convictions, but I would
>suggest
>that one of the problems in the black community is that too many really
>villainous people roam about the ghetto and the police are indifferent.
>Look at the murder solution rate when the victim is black. Clearly these
>are situations where a crime has been committed and I certainly find it
>disturbing that the police are not doing enough to bring murderers to
>justice.
>
> Our rights don't mean much if our society won't enforce the laws meant
>to
>protect them, but that doesn't mean that the United States conception of
>rights is wrong. Where the United States falls down on the job is in the
>area of responsibility, not rights. The powerful in this nation feel very
>little responsibility towards their fellow Americans (and none towards
>people outside the nation). For that matter, Americans in general feel
>very
>little responsibility towards each other. You could argue that the
>American
>approach of liberty first, responsibility afterwards is partly responsible
>for that, but it still doesn't mean we are wrong about liberty.
>
> I suggest that the United States represents a great but very incomplete
>society. Liberty is enough to unite us but not enough to make us look
>after
>each other. We don't have the benefit of cultural consensus in the United
>States, but how realistic is it to depend on cultural consensus as the
>world
>moves forward? Look at Europe. Individually, the countries have (on
>average) a very high degree of cultural consensus and a very generous
>welfare state. What happens when that internal consensus has to link
>itself
>with outsiders? The Europeans are going through the same questions of
>confederation that we went through, so I think they are incomplete as well.
>They will have to decide whether the European state is there to guarantee
>liberty or responsibility and I think they will be forced to develop their
>concepts of liberty along American lines - at the level of federal Europe
>at
>least.
>
>
>
> peace,
>
>
> boddi
>
>
>
>
>
>___________________________________
>http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk

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