>Bullshit. The reason for refusing to campaign for the DP, as Yoshie has
>indicated so many times that Kelley is now accusing her of
>repetitiousness, is that we need a mass movement (for real reforms), and
>that it is a waste of radical energy to campaign for the DP. (I don't
>give a hang one way or the other how anyone spends 30 seconds next
>November in the voting booth.)
Nope. I didn't accuse Yoshie of repetition but, rather, of providing an answer so narrowly circumscribed that she just ends up where she began. She ends up defining those she's concerned with as people who believe in and are active participants in building a left social movement. _those_ people are her concern and, specifically, those people who _CAMPAIGN_. She's opposed to people campaigning, she says.
But NO ONE is talking about campaigning. I asked what harm voting did, not campaigning: VOTING.
I raised the question because I'm interested in an honest, coherent answer. I've been reading your objections, but I don't quite get the concerns. I thought you, Carrol, might step in and gave a coherent answer to the question of voting. Objections, so far, have always been about campaigning. Yet no one has advocated campaigning. I should have been clear that I'm interested in YOUR answer, Carrol. Not Yoshie's, your's. You're capable of principled discourse and you're capable of mounting an interesting argument.
Nonetheless, what has finally emerged is that Yoshie (and you?) is concerned that, if leftists vote Dean into power, the anti-war movement will fizzle out . This explains much. That's what is at stake. If Dean wins, the anti-war movement is history. Or so thinks Yoshie (and you?) I think you should be honest about this. It's THE objection and nothing else. The argument needs to proceed based on this reason, not the 1001 issues yoshie's raised that aren't really the issue. The issue is a concern that Dean will win. That's a different kettle of fish than the claim that any voting at all is a waste of time and does nothing for the outcome. Apparently, it does. If Dean wins,..... \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Tahir wrote: The true political cul de sac: thinking that you can ever get rid of the right by voting for the left.
Could you point to those who are claiming that they think they're getting rid of the right? Doug and others seem to want to "teach Shrub a lesson". Which is to say, I think he just wants the left and right to operate in the "typical" political terrain. I don't get the impression that they're under any illusions about what voting will do for a "left social movement": exactly squat. I think, though, that they're objecting (like me) to the claim that voting harms a left social movement if it's just a minor act and the rest of your life is spent help building a left social movement otherwise. i happen to think doug does that; carrol and yoshie don't think doug contributes to building a left social movement.
BTW, i doubt i'd vote for prez. i usually only vote for local elections where i think it matters. if i pull a lever, it's for the commie party candidate
Kelley