Carrol wrote:-
And the majority of left liberals and far too many radicals and
> >revolutionaries cannot recognize that open conspiracy because they have
> >to believe in the basic good intentions of the DP. Just as people
> >believe in a conspiracy to assassinate Kennedy because they want to hold
> >on to their belief that some day, some where, there will be a DP
> >President who will follow a progressive policy, and faith in Kennedy is
> >a candle in the darkness to maintain that faith.
>From: "cian" <cian_oconnor at yahoo.co.uk>
>Reply-To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
>Subject: RE: [lbo-talk] Fisk avoiding facts? really?
>Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 20:58:15 -0000
>
>Joseph: We'd moved on from conspiracy whackos, please try to keep up.
>
>Carrol,
>
>I agree to some extent, but I think you (and Chomsky) both underestimate
>the
>degree to which people in elites can convince themselves they're doing the
>right thing - and I think they really believe that for the most part (and
>even when they realise they're doing the wrong thing, they justify it as
>the
>lesser evil, difficulties of leadership, etc). I think its very difficult
>for most humans to do evil consciously - rather they have to construct
>justifications for what they do. Be it neoclassical economic arguments for
>selfishness, or the justifications for what we did in Iraq during the 90s.
>Arguably a major job of the court philosopher is to provide comforting lies
>to enable the Clintons of the world to sleep easy.
>
>There's also the way in which the 90s changed the dynamic of mainstream
>debate, where it was taken for granted that welfare caused dependency, the
>market was better, etc. Clinton being more interested in power, than
>principal may just have been swaying with the wind. In a different
>intellectual climate, he may have responded differently. In general Clinton
>took the path of least resistance. I dunno, but I get very uncomfortable
>assigning motives to people I've never met.
>
>Cian
>
>cian wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Note, none of the events described by Parenti happened in secret. It
>all
> > > involved the organisations you would suspect, and the discussions took
> >place
> > > in public. The more interesting question (and one that Chomsky,
>amongst
> > > others, have tried to answer) is how they can take place so openly,
>and
> >yet
> > > be ignored.
> >
> >(I agree that _all_, not just some, of the important and interesting
> >conspiracies take place in the open, and can be discovered by anyone who
> >reads the major capitalist newspapers.)
> >
> >I don't think there is one answer to Chomsky's question. I will suggest
> >one reason that accounts for why one large group of liberals and
> >leftists ignore them. See how often Democratic Party positions (or the
> >position of this or that DP politician) is explained on the basis of the
> >"cowardice" or the "dishonesty" of DP politicians. That is, consider the
> >huge number of leftists and left-liberals who are unwilling to accept
> >the fact that the DP's actions are in more-or-less perfect accord with
> >its intentions. They believe that the DP is "really" on our side but
> >simply lacks the courage to do what it knows is right.
> >
> >Clinton destroyed public aid because he intended to destroy public aid,
> >_not_ because he was afraid to defend it and _not_ because he wanted to
> >gain votes, but because he was against public aid in principle. In
> >principle he really wanted more americans to suffer, because that was to
> >the long-run advantage, he believed, of "The Nation" (i.e., an important
> >sector of the ruling class).
> >
> >And Clinton destroyed the lives of millions of Iraqi citizens and
> >prepared the way for Bush _not_ because he was afraid the Republicans
> >would gain votes but because he really believed whole-heartedly that in
> >order to maintain u.s. hegemony it was necessary and desirable to
> >inflict visible pain on the people of any nation whose leaders did not
> >leap to the u.s. will. He wasn't stupid. He knew Sadaam was no threat.
> >He knew that u.s. oil supplies were safe regardless of who ruled in
> >Iraq. But he believed that the whole world had to be taught a lesson,
> >and that only large pain and misery for the people of Iraq could teach
> >that lesson.
> >
> >And the majority of left liberals and far too many radicals and
> >revolutionaries cannot recognize that open conspiracy because they have
> >to believe in the basic good intentions of the DP. Just as people
> >believe in a conspiracy to assassinate Kennedy because they want to hold
> >on to their belief that some day, some where, there will be a DP
> >President who will follow a progressive policy, and faith in Kennedy is
> >a candle in the darkness to maintain that faith.
> >
> >Carrol
> >
> >___________________________________
> >http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>
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