So, I conclude from your statement that it does not matter to you if a claim is backed by facts or not, as long as it supports your position?
That's called what? If it is not an aspect of conspiracism, it is at least an aspect of logical fallacy and suspect ethics.
-Chip
-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Wanzala [mailto:jwanzala at hotmail.com]
Sent: Tue 10/14/2003 4:33 PM
Cc:
Subject: RE: [lbo-talk] Re: recall, camejo vote
The issue here is potential voter fraud associated with touch-screen voting
technology. Many computer professionals and people on the left in general
are very concerned that people connected to right-wing/corporate interests
might be in a position to manipulate the 2004 vote in their favor. It is a
legitimate concern. There is a documented history of powerful interests
rigging elections 'through various' means. The injection of your tiresome
and predictable mutterings about 'conspiracy theory' do nothing to take this
discussion further, they only serve to distort the issue.
Joe W.
>From: "Chip Berlet" <cberlet at igc.org>
>Reply-To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
>Subject: RE: [lbo-talk] Re: recall, camejo vote
>Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:15:53 -0400
>
>Hi,
>
>Let me try simpler declarative sentences.
>
>I agree that the election in 2000 was stolen through a variety of means.
>
>I do not believe all progressives are conspiracy theorists.
>
>I believe that evidence is not "out there" but can be found through
>substantive research.
>
>When evidence exists, it is a bad idea to spread claims for which there is
>no evidence.
>
>Just because a writer makes claims that fit your already exisiting notions,
>does not mean that writer has actually presented evidence.
>
>Credulous people who believe every anti-government allegation are not
>progressives, but are marching down the road toward right-wing populism and
>perhaps even fascism.
>
>This is a bad idea.
>
>When I see it, I criticize it.
>
>Hannah Arendt once commented that fascism involved a dangerous confluence
>of cynicism and credulity.
>
>I like Arendt's work.
>
>Progressives should read her work more often.
>
>-Chip
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joseph Wanzala [mailto:jwanzala at hotmail.com]
> Sent: Tue 10/14/2003 2:27 PM
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Cc:
> Subject: RE: [lbo-talk] Re: recall, camejo vote
>
>
>
>
> It is an oft repeated truism in left circles that 'Bush & Co. stole the
>2000
> election.' I suppose this makes all progressives conspiracy theoriets. As
>to
> evidence, the evidence is 'out there' Mr. Berlet.
>
> http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,60563,00.html
>
>
> >From: "Chip Berlet" <cberlet at igc.org>
> >Reply-To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> >To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
> >Subject: RE: [lbo-talk] Re: recall, camejo vote
> >Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:51:47 -0400
> >
> >Hi,
> >
> >I did not say that and I do not think that. What I said was that
> >particular article was a lot of hot air with little evidence and lots of
> >conspiracist speculation. What I am asking for is less credulity and
>more
> >evidence.
> >
> >Chip
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Willy Greenfields [mailto:filthydirtyunwashed at yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Tue 10/14/2003 1:39 PM
> > To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> > Cc:
> > Subject: RE: [lbo-talk] Re: recall, camejo vote
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Too much late night watching of Oliver Stone movies.
> > > The issue of flawed election vote tabulation is
> > > real. This conspiracist regurgitation of what is a
> > > staple in right-wing conspiracy sources is of little
> > > use in organizing against vote fraud.
> >
> > Are you saying that everyone who thinks that the 2000
> > election debacle was about interests as opposed to
> > technics ('vote tabulation') is a conspiracist loon?
> > Your dismissive tone makes it tough for some of us
> > movie-goers to tell.
> >
> > __________________________________
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> >
> >
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