Joe W.
>From: "Chip Berlet" <cberlet at igc.org>
>Reply-To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
>Subject: RE: [lbo-talk] Re: recall, camejo vote
>Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:37:51 -0400
>
>Hi,
>
>So, I conclude from your statement that it does not matter to you if a
>claim is backed by facts or not, as long as it supports your position?
>
>That's called what? If it is not an aspect of conspiracism, it is at least
>an aspect of logical fallacy and suspect ethics.
>
>-Chip
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joseph Wanzala [mailto:jwanzala at hotmail.com]
> Sent: Tue 10/14/2003 4:33 PM
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Cc:
> Subject: RE: [lbo-talk] Re: recall, camejo vote
>
>
>
> The issue here is potential voter fraud associated with touch-screen
>voting
> technology. Many computer professionals and people on the left in general
> are very concerned that people connected to right-wing/corporate interests
> might be in a position to manipulate the 2004 vote in their favor. It is a
> legitimate concern. There is a documented history of powerful interests
> rigging elections 'through various' means. The injection of your tiresome
> and predictable mutterings about 'conspiracy theory' do nothing to take
>this
> discussion further, they only serve to distort the issue.
>
> Joe W.
>
>
> >From: "Chip Berlet" <cberlet at igc.org>
> >Reply-To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> >To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
> >Subject: RE: [lbo-talk] Re: recall, camejo vote
> >Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:15:53 -0400
> >
> >Hi,
> >
> >Let me try simpler declarative sentences.
> >
> >I agree that the election in 2000 was stolen through a variety of means.
> >
> >I do not believe all progressives are conspiracy theorists.
> >
> >I believe that evidence is not "out there" but can be found through
> >substantive research.
> >
> >When evidence exists, it is a bad idea to spread claims for which there
>is
> >no evidence.
> >
> >Just because a writer makes claims that fit your already exisiting
>notions,
> >does not mean that writer has actually presented evidence.
> >
> >Credulous people who believe every anti-government allegation are not
> >progressives, but are marching down the road toward right-wing populism
>and
> >perhaps even fascism.
> >
> >This is a bad idea.
> >
> >When I see it, I criticize it.
> >
> >Hannah Arendt once commented that fascism involved a dangerous confluence
> >of cynicism and credulity.
> >
> >I like Arendt's work.
> >
> >Progressives should read her work more often.
> >
> >-Chip
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Joseph Wanzala [mailto:jwanzala at hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Tue 10/14/2003 2:27 PM
> > To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> > Cc:
> > Subject: RE: [lbo-talk] Re: recall, camejo vote
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > It is an oft repeated truism in left circles that 'Bush & Co.
>stole the
> >2000
> > election.' I suppose this makes all progressives conspiracy
>theoriets. As
> >to
> > evidence, the evidence is 'out there' Mr. Berlet.
> >
> > http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,60563,00.html
> >
> >
> > >From: "Chip Berlet" <cberlet at igc.org>
> > >Reply-To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> > >To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
> > >Subject: RE: [lbo-talk] Re: recall, camejo vote
> > >Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:51:47 -0400
> > >
> > >Hi,
> > >
> > >I did not say that and I do not think that. What I said was that
> > >particular article was a lot of hot air with little evidence and
>lots of
> > >conspiracist speculation. What I am asking for is less credulity
>and
> >more
> > >evidence.
> > >
> > >Chip
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Willy Greenfields
>[mailto:filthydirtyunwashed at yahoo.com]
> > > Sent: Tue 10/14/2003 1:39 PM
> > > To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> > > Cc:
> > > Subject: RE: [lbo-talk] Re: recall, camejo vote
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Too much late night watching of Oliver Stone movies.
> > > > The issue of flawed election vote tabulation is
> > > > real. This conspiracist regurgitation of what is a
> > > > staple in right-wing conspiracy sources is of little
> > > > use in organizing against vote fraud.
> > >
> > > Are you saying that everyone who thinks that the 2000
> > > election debacle was about interests as opposed to
> > > technics ('vote tabulation') is a conspiracist loon?
> > > Your dismissive tone makes it tough for some of us
> > > movie-goers to tell.
> > >
> > > __________________________________
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