People are "competitive" -- BFD, right? So? We do not care if they compete for Nobel Prizes, Booker Awards, Chess Champion of the World, Oscars and Tonys and Pulitzers and Grammies, World Series victories (that's a sore point right now in Chicago), Mr. and Ms. Universe, spots in Julliard or Berkeley, etc. Some of us don't even care if people compete for profits in markets, as long as the workers control the enterprise and keep the profits.
People are "cooperative" -- is that so great? Do we want them cooperating to invade other countries, to exploit their workforces, to deprive the widow and the orphan of their legal remedies? It depends on what they are cooperating FOR.
The question is not, are we too competitive to have a decent socialism? The answer is no. We know this for a fact. The question is, can we create a movement with the power to displace those who cooperate for our ill and the world's, and the democratic commitments to channel our competition and our cooperation into liberal and humane paths. therea re theoretical questions to answered along the way, and model-building feasible socialism, if not overdone, is part of that work, but the question Thomas put forwards is a snare and a delusion. The question I put in its place is not something that admits of a useful merely theoretical answer.
jks
--- Thomas Seay <entheogens at yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- andie nachgeborenen
> <andie_nachgeborenen at yahoo.com>
> > Competition is human nature, sure. Which means
> there
> > is a range of environments where humans are
> > competitive in various ways. Cooperation is also
> > human nature, ditto.
>
> EXACTLY! And how to reconcile the two in a more
> just
> society occurs to me to be the million dollar
> question
> for anyone on the Left. The problem is that a lot
> of
> people on the Left grow squeamish over the words
> "human
> nature". That's too bad, and I think a lot of
> problems arise from the notion that everything is a
> social construct, that somehow violence,
> competition,
> hierarchy are things that will just disappear-poof-
> with the proper social engineering. Obviously,
> competition and cooperation both take on a certain
> shape under capitalism; they took on a certain shape
> under so-called real socialism which seems to not be
> lacking in cut-throat power grabbers....and it
> existed
> and had a somwhat different face in so-called
> primitive communism...as it does in our primate
> ancestors.
>
> Unless we come to terms with this, the Left is
> always
> going to be either an opposition movement OR
> recreate
> the kind of shit that we have seen in places like
> China and North Korea.
>
> Thomas
>
> =====
> <<You and me baby ain't nothin' but mammals
> So let's do it like they do it on the Discovery
> Channel>>
>
> Bloodhound Gang, "The Bad Touch"
>
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