>
>
> On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, Brian Siano wrote:
>
>> And please note, dear Miles: I asked someone else to provide me with
>> such
>> a description. You may take that as a failure of my imagination... but
>> if
>> _you_ can't imagine one, then that's _two_ failures on your side of the
>> scoreboard.
>
> I guess we're talking past each other. To put it bluntly, you
> appear to be ignorant about the massive variation in human
> experience that exists in different societies. I don't have
> to imagine anything; I just need to look at the historical
> and anthropological record.
As I said: could you please describe an environment where competitiveness would _not_ occur? For all of your claims of knowledge of "massive variation" in human societies, you seem to be unable to come up with one, concrete example of such an environment.
The sheer fact that human societies vary is well established. The question is how much they _do_ vary.
> As Justin notes, humans
> are capable of competitive behavior; they are also capable
> of cooperative behavior. Whether people in a society
> value cooperation or competition is a social fact, not
> a biological mandate.
>
> I don't understand why this simple and obvious point
> eludes you.
Nothing's eluding me at all. In fact, I'd like to remind you of what I originally wrote:
> But this amounts to empty sophistry. Okay, let's grant that
> competitiveness is, like nearly every other human behavior, a product of
> the interaction of an organism's genetics and the envrionment in which
> it exists. This is perfectly reasonable.
> But could you please describe an environment where human beings can
> exist, and where they would _not_ develop competitiveness?
Notice that I clearly stated that competitiveness is a product of the organism and its environment. Lord knows what you think I'm missing-- but since you've seen fit to _avoid_ quoting these particular words of mine, I have the feeling that you'd prefer to argue a straw man.
I merely asked for one example where the environment was such that competitiveness would _not_ exist. Nobody doubts that societies vary. Nobody doubts that behavior is the result of a complex interplay between the individual and society. And nobody has claimed that competitiveness is a "biological mandate."
Care to reload your question?