With respect to secularisma nd the framer's views, you are dead wrong. Many of the framers were Deists. That did not mean that they thought we should all be Deists. Theyw ere, before they were Deists, Enlightenment liberals. They thought that we should not have an established religion. including Deism. How do I know this? Because they wrote it into the fundamental law in the First amendment, which prohibitsa the establishment of religion. Whatever their religious beliefs or lack of them (some, like Franklin, were probably atheists), all of them were vividly aware of wars of religion and religious persecution. Their solution, unpopular then as now, is to have a state that was neutral among all religions and all irreligions. I think that is a good idea.
jks
--- Curtiss_Leung at ibi.com wrote:
> CGE wrote:
>
> > Then a number of interesting people are guilty of
> the same crime. Cf.
> > Thos. Jefferson & friends, good Enlightenment
> liberals, who wrote in the
> > summer of 1776 that the independence of the
> American states was founded
> > upon the laws of God -- indeed, that it was
> "self-evident" that people are
> > "endowed by their Creator" with fundamental
> rights. --CGE
>
> Ah, there's the rub.
>
> This goes to show the harmfulness of the veneration
> of the constitution and Founders. As long as
> arguments
> for the US as a secular and plural state rests upon
> appeals
> to the 1st amendment and the Founders views, the
> *best* you
> can honestly get out of it is a Judeo-Christian
> inspired
> Deism. And that ain't secularism.
>
> And just how does the "just the facts, ma'am"
> brigade explain
> religious belief and the influence of religion in
> politics in
> this country without just calling people stupid?
>
> --
> Curtiss
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