Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:58:57 +0200
From: Subject: Re: Re: Pugliese redbaiting over at LBO-talk
Michael Pugliese <debsian at pacbell.net> skreiv Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:31:48 - 0700
> I thought a rule, for understandable reasons (though nothing here has
> ever given a whiff of anything like a RAF or Red Brigades or Weather
> Underground'ish type involvement, despite Peter K's romanticizing of
> them,
> being good marxists ala Plekhanov, for example,
> http://www.marxists.org/archive/cliff/works/1957/01/plekhanov.htm ,
> terrorism or anything violent isn't the flovor here, though some comrades
> like say in Indonesia, for example, operate in highly repressive contexts
> where even marxist study groups with no connection to class or otyer
> struggles, are more than likely to get whomped on) that posts were not to
> be forwarded to other public lists?
Hello? The people you've tarnished with the fascist brush specifically asked for their email to be forwarded to all lists where the original connectyion to Bill White was made. If you can't manage to edit out "" from the message, I'll give you some leeway there.
> I admitted my mistake. In Santa Cruz NAM, though we weren't maoists, we
> did do crit/self crit, so I'm not unaware of the practice of rectifying
> errors. But, is your request, ala a Proyectian maneuver, just designed to
> humiliate me in front one of the other groups I post a bit?
See, this is a problem you might have. We all make mistakes. It is not, or should not, be humiliating in itself. Just send a mesage to LBO-talk and whatever other lists you forwarded the Bill White crap too, and say: "Sorry! I sent a message I should have understoood contained a lie the other day (I mean, the guy says I'm an organiser for the CPUSA). The lawyers Mara and Carlos give a perfectly reasonable explanation for how they came to be in the same room as that fascist White. Maybe I should think things over one more time before I send out an accusation against the WWP or IAC next time."
This wouldn't be humiliating, just letting the world know you're a reasonable man who lets the facts decide, and is interested in getting them straight.
Which has a
> few
> WWP/IAC/ANSWER defenders but, overall, has no truck w/ their neo-
> Stalinism?
> That, yes, has had many threads over the yrs. on WWP, based on the ups
> and
> downs and tempo of our movements, but, that particular thread I posted
> the
> Bill White on, had run it's course, fireworks hot and heavy for a period
> of
> a few days, then , having exhausted itself, we went on to other things?
But isn't the truth important to you? Doesn't it feel good to be able to say "Hey, the WWP might be supporting North Korea, but they're not stupid enough to meet up with Bill White. That was reassuring in a way."
> And, this word, "red-baiting, " again, from all the dozens of marxist
> texts I can and have cited on lbo-talk, here, and elsewhere by anti-
> Stalinists, whether Trotskyists, council communists, libertarian
> socialists, autonomists, Euro-Communists, state caps, Shactmanites, etc.
> which all contests on a marxist basis the communist character of the fSU
> , how is that anti-Red? Again, do not conflate the writings of a Richard
> Pipes with a Cornelius Castoriadis or Rudolf Bahro or Karl Korsch. --
> Michael Pugliese
And you're saying this to a Maoist? The problem with you is that you take any dirt on the revolutionary left you come across and fing it around to see if it sticks somewhere. When people say that you're making a mess, you start talking about something else instead of just cleaning it up.
OK then. Can you explain to me why you are interested in forwarding the Bill White URL but have not forwarded the letter from Patnership for Civil Justice? As long as you haven't done the latter, it is obvious that any dirt, however spurious, on WWP gets sent around the net, but not the truth.
******
-- Michael Pugliese