The "Cash For Comment" scandal grew out of media interest in the details of a very lucrative racket that both Laws and Jones have been making a fortune from for years. Its an extortion racket forcing a few big corporations to pay Laws and Jones multi-million dollar protection, disguised as "advertising". First they begin a sustained campaign of vilification of the business (such as Telstra or the big banks). Until the target agrees to "sponsor" the radio presenter, or advertise on the programme. (At hugely inflated rates.)
As soon as the targetted business pays up, the shock jock instantly turns from a snarling critic of the victim to a fawning adorer. Apparently the listeners to these programmes don't see any problem with this. But national and NSW politicians, who usually prefer to suck up to Jones and Laws, must be getting real nervous now that they are at each other's throats and and support for one will be taken as an attack on the other.
Bill Bartlett Bracknell Tas
Australian Broadcasting Corporation
TV PROGRAM TRANSCRIPT
LOCATION: http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2004/s1096935.htm
Broadcast: 28/04/2004 Laws outlines 'Kirribilli' conversation with Jones
Reporter: Kerry O'Brien
KERRY O'BRIEN: Well, Alan Jones declined an interview today, but John Laws did agree to one, which we recorded at one of his Sydney homes this afternoon.
John Laws, you were at a dinner party with Alan Jones and others on November 28, 2000, as you've said this morning.
Who was the host and who else was there?
JOHN LAWS, BROADCASTER: John Fordham was the host.
KERRY O'BRIEN: He's your manager?
JOHN LAWS: No, he's not my manager.
He's my agent and my friend, and we were there because of the latter connection.
It was just a friendly dinner party.
John was there, his wife Veronica was there, son Nick was there.
Not sure about Ben.
Ben might have come in and gone out.
Caroline was there, my wife.
And I was there, and Alan was there.
KERRY O'BRIEN: What did you say about David Flint that prompted Alan Jones's response?
JOHN LAWS: I made some flippant comment about - I really can't remember.
That I thought he was wishy-washy or whatever it might have been.
It was a mildly derogatory comment said partly in jest - only partly - and Alan turned to me and said words to the effect of - now, bear in mind this is the year 2000 - but words to the effect of, "Well, you know, careful what you say about him. If it wasn't for him, God knows where we'd be," or words to that effect.
And then he said, "As a matter of fact, I feel it so important that he is reappointed as head of the ABA, that I went to Kirribilli House and I told John Howard, 'Reappoint David Flint or you won't have my support in the forthcoming election.'"
KERRY O'BRIEN: So it's words to the effect of --
JOHN LAWS: Yeah.
Well, the latter part is pretty much verbatim.
KERRY O'BRIEN: There's no room for misunderstanding what Alan Jones said to you about David Flint?
JOHN LAWS: Absolutely no room for misunderstanding.
And shortly after that - probably five, 10 minutes after that - Alan's mobile phone rang, he answered it, and as he walked away to take the call from the table, John Fordham turned to me and said, "I can't believe what he just said."
KERRY O'BRIEN: So, what implication did you draw from those comments?
JOHN LAWS: Well, I - I thought Alan has now reached the stage where he believes that he can tell the Prime Minister who to appoint and who not to appoint.
KERRY O'BRIEN: But what implication did you draw from the comment that both you and Alan Jones had something to thank David Flint for, for being in that job?
JOHN LAWS: Well, I wondered what I had to thank him for.
I still do.
KERRY O'BRIEN: You saw no reason to refer to those comments before today?
JOHN LAWS: No.
KERRY O'BRIEN: You didn't think there was a serious import to them?
Enough for you to reveal anything?
JOHN LAWS: No, I thought --
You know, despite popular rumour, I've been brought up to be a decent human being.
I knew about that, I knew about the letter, but I didn't think it was right, given it was Fordo's dinner party, I didn't think it was right nor necessary for me to discuss that.
But after your interview last night with David Flint I thought it was perhaps still --
I questioned myself a lot during the night, but I thought it was necessary to now bring it up, given the relationship that you exposed last night on your program.
KERRY O'BRIEN: Did Alan Jones give any insights to how Mr Howard responded to his demand, as you recall it, for the reappointment of David Flint to the ABA?
JOHN LAWS: No.
KERRY O'BRIEN: You didn't ask 'cause the phone went?
JOHN LAWS: I couldn't.
I really found it difficult, as John Fordham did, to believe what we'd just heard.
Kind of shook our heads and then he took his telephone call and the subject was changed to something else.
KERRY O'BRIEN: You've no doubt heard Alan Jones's response today or you've heard what he's had to say?
JOHN LAWS: I heard what he said.
KERRY O'BRIEN: He says that your claim that he demanded John Howard reappoint David Flint is "fanciful and ludicrous".
Your response?
JOHN LAWS: Well, it's true.
He enunciated it, so he ought to know whether it's fanciful or ludicrous because he said it.
There are several people, who knows?
KERRY O'BRIEN: He says the idea that he would just march up to the gates of Kirribilli House, demand to see the Prime Minister, and further demand that he reappoint David Flint or else is ridiculous.
He says he's never talked to the Prime Minister about any appointments.
JOHN LAWS: I wouldn't know about that because I am not privy to the conversations between Alan Jones and the PM.
But to put it that way, I mean --
That's typical Alan, you know, "to expect me to march up to the gates".
What about a telephone call?
Ring up and say, "Can I come over and see you?"
I'm sure the Prime Minister would have seen him.
KERRY O'BRIEN: He says that no-one can remember a conversation from a dinner party that long ago - what, three and a half years ago.
You're saying your recollection isn't absolutely clear as to what you had to say to him, but it's pretty clear about what he said to you?
JOHN LAWS: Sure.
Ask Alan Jones who won the Bledisloe Cup in 1986 in New Zealand.
He'll remember.
KERRY O'BRIEN: Yes, but would he remember the conversation at the dinner party that followed?
JOHN LAWS: Well, if you said something like that, would you not remember?
KERRY O'BRIEN: Have you asked the other guests if they're prepared to publicly corroborate your recollection of the dinner conversation?
JOHN LAWS: Of course they are.
KERRY O'BRIEN: They are prepared to corroborate?
JOHN LAWS: Of course they are, because it's the truth.
Why would they not be?
And how could I - people tell lies, usually for their own advantage.
How could this be to my advantage to tell a lie of that proportion?
Apart from that, I'm not a liar, but everybody who was there heard it.
My wife's inside.
Go ask her.
KERRY O'BRIEN: You were very personal in your comments about David Flint this morning.
Why shouldn't we just see this as payback for the fact that the ABA has twice penalised you heavily for breaches of ABA standards?
JOHN LAWS: Well, you can see it as payback.
KERRY O'BRIEN: Is it?
JOHN LAWS: Well, to a degree of course.
If somebody hurts you and you get an opportunity to retaliate, don't you retaliate?
KERRY O'BRIEN: Quite apart from the 'cash for comment' findings, it didn't get to you, this year, that the ABA has found multiple breaches against you with regard to your arrangements with several sponsors, including Telstra, but has cleared Alan Jones of any breaches with regard to 2GB's commercial arrangements with Telstra?
JOHN LAWS: It didn't get to me because it didn't surprise me.
And when you look at the alleged breaches - and I believe Mr Jones said words to the effect that the the breaches that had been incurred by me had been referred to the Commonwealth DPP.
Well, the Commonwealth DPP was to let radio station 2UE - and it's 2UE that's the offender, not me.
It's 2UE that's the offender, They were to let 2UE know if they had been passed on, and to date we've had no correspondence to that effect so they haven't been passed on.
And if you look at these terrible crimes I committed, it was because I said, I think, on 15 out of 19 occasions the complaint was because I said "They're sponsors of ours," instead of "sponsors of mine".
And that was it.
KERRY O'BRIEN: You do realise, though, that this can easily be portrayed as sour grapes on your part?
JOHN LAWS: Yeah.
I don't mind if it is.
It probably is a bit.
I mean, I had a pretty rough run and it seems that Mr Jones didn't have a pretty rough run.
I don't deny human frailties.
There probably is a bit of payback.
There probably is a bit of sour grapes, but I think that I have every good reason for the sour grapes.
KERRY O'BRIEN: Yes, but then that leads people to speculate as to whether you're being absolutely honest in your recollection?
JOHN LAWS: Well, I'm being absolutely honest, and that can be verified by five other people.
KERRY O'BRIEN: You've heard the Prime Minister's response to your claim today, or seen the Prime Minister's response today to your claim, from a spokesman - "The Prime Minister does not take instructions from anybody in the media about appointments"?
JOHN LAWS: But the Prime Minister didn't say that Mr Jones didn't come and make any suggestions to me about Mr Flint or Professor Flint.
He didn't say that.
He just said he doesn't take instructions, but did he get instructions?
He didn't tell us.
KERRY O'BRIEN: Alan Jones at least implied today, in his response on 2GB, that part of your motivation might have been professional jealousy - that he's doing better in his career these days than you are.
JOHN LAWS: Well, he's not.
He broadcasts on one station in the Sydney metropolitan area, and he's very successful and is very, very good at what he does.
A very good broadcaster.
But I've got the biggest audience because I broadcast on 63 stations around Australia.
I think that that might stick in Mr Jones's craw, as they say, a little.
KERRY O'BRIEN: You two just don't like each other, do you?
What does it go back to?
JOHN LAWS: Well, somebody else is - or has - asked the question before and I answered it this way.
We only really disagree on religious grounds.
I don't see him as god.
KERRY O'BRIEN: John Laws, thanks for your time.
JOHN LAWS: Thank you Kerry, it's been a pleasure.
KERRY O'BRIEN: John Laws's agent, John Fordham, declined an interview late today, but issued a statement confirming he'd hosted the dinner party of the Laws-Jones conversation.
Mr Fordham said "details of that conversation as broadcast by John Laws this morning were, in my opinion, an accurate account of what was said."
I should also point out that I recorded the Laws interview before the Prime Minister put out his second statement of the day in which he said he had no recollection of Alan Jones raising the David Flint reappointment with him.
What a triangle.
Or is it a rectangle?