Meanwhile, isn't the US winning its war aims in Iraq? Are we bugging out any time soon? Is secular democracy on the horizon? Does this war increase or decrease the odds of these two eventualities?
Q.E.D.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org [mailto:lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org]
> On Behalf Of joanna bujes
> Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 10:19 AM
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] The end of warfare?
>
> Viet Nam: to stop the spread of communism.
>
> Iraq: to establish a permanent military presence in the Middle East and
> to destroy the possiblity of secular democracy in the region.
>
> Joanna
>
> Michael Dawson wrote:
>
> >What was the central war objective in Vietnam? Iraq?
> >
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org [mailto:lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-
> talk.org]
> >>On Behalf Of joanna bujes
> >>Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 9:04 AM
> >>To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> >>Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] The end of warfare?
> >>
> >>No, they wanted to win both times. Viet Nam was a loss and everyone knew
> >>it. If it were not a loss, there would have been no syndrome to recover
> >>from.
> >>
> >>Iraq will be a loss too. Not only that, it may take the U.S. economy
> >>down with it.
> >>
> >>Joanna
> >>
> >>Michael Dawson wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Isn't analysis of objectives the only proper basis for making good
> sense
> >>>
> >>>
> >>of
> >>
> >>
> >>>wars? If so, then why talk like Vietnam was a loss for the U.S.?
> Sure,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>the
> >>
> >>
> >>>elites would have loved to crush the country and wound up with ticker
> >>>
> >>>
> >>tape
> >>
> >>
> >>>parades, but it was the crushing of the country that was the more
> >>>
> >>>
> >>important
> >>
> >>
> >>>of the two aims, by far.
> >>>
> >>>Similar point about Iraq. The main strategic objective is to
> perpetuate
> >>>irrational, undemocratic, fractious cultural politics in Oilsville.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Sure,
> >>
> >>
> >>>the U.S. would love to end up with ticker tape parades and a compliant
> >>>
> >>>
> >>and
> >>
> >>
> >>>stable puppet regime, but it's the stirring of the pot that's the more
> >>>important objective.
> >>>
> >>>End of warfare, my butt!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org [mailto:lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>talk.org]
> >>
> >>
> >>>>On Behalf Of Carl Remick
> >>>>Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 8:04 AM
> >>>>To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> >>>>Subject: RE: [lbo-talk] The end of warfare?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>From: joanna bujes <jbujes at covad.net>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>"Against the most heavily armed opponent in the history of War,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>Fallujah
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>has still not let itself be "taken" to date. The mightiest military
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>machine
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>in history has met its match. A turning point in military affairs?
> The
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>end
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>of warfare, as practiced by the Americans - the application of
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>overwhelming
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>force to obtain a victory?"
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>I've seen this movie before. However clichéd it may be to compare
> Iraq
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>to
> >>
> >>
> >>>>Vietnam, the fact is that the US *is* acting out its fantasies of
> power
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>in
> >>
> >>
> >>>>Iraq in the same way it did in Vietnam, and once again it is getting
> its
> >>>>tuchus handed to it. Unfortunately, the US didn't learn any lesson 30
> >>>>years
> >>>>ago and doesn't seem likely to learn any this time either. We'll just
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>go
> >>
> >>
> >>>>back to the lab for a few years to figure out more ingenious,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>spectacular
> >>
> >>
> >>>>and "precise" ways to inflict pain and death, and presto, the US will
> be
> >>>>out
> >>>>democratizing the world again through main force better than ever.
> >>>>
> >>>>Carl
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>___________________________________
> >>>>http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>___________________________________
> >>>http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
> >>>
> >>>.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>___________________________________
> >>http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >___________________________________
> >http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
> >
> >.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ___________________________________
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk