do you have any idea what dues cosby paid to get where he is? you don't like this black brother telling you how he sees things do you?
cosby's published eight books. he's won several grammys, emmys, people's choice awards, a NAACP image award, a kennedy center people's choice award. he's starred in movies and TV. he has a BA, MA and PhD. his list of accomplishments is an arm and leg long. you could care less, right?
he's given millions of dollars to the community, along with personal time, energy and love. your "track record" more "marvelous" than that? don't jank a guy you can't come close to matching.
he grew up in the philly projects. read his biography at http://www.celebritywonder.com/cgi-bin/frame/frame.cgi?billcosby==http://www.biography.com/search/article.jsp?aid=9258468
he got where he is due to brains, hard work, talent, luck and charisma. despite the same "racialist" filters, racism and capitalism you whine about being applied to you and all those you callously term "unwanteds." [you let somebody else dare tell black people what's "unwanted" and what isn't?] despite absence of "analysis of the material conditions" he made something of himself, big time. tell me, there were no "structural impediments," as you so meaninglessly phrase it, standing in his way?
do you think the white community fell over backwards to give him everything he wanted? why do you think he accomplished so much and you ... aren't in his league?
you're full of cop outs, dwayne. your writing, for example all this stuff about "spartanization project, or something" [what in hell is "something"?], is blowing smoke up everyone's rear.
your revisionist tale that the collapse of the 1960s civil rights "vision of success" [like it was nothing more real than a "vision" and not something people fought, were beaten and literally died for] being due to "racism and capitalism" is not worth spit. the 1960s civil rights movement is over because too many people -- black and white -- got too comfortable, too selfish, too fat, too spoiled and forgot the dues other people paid to get them there.
you write "... in some circles people talk all day and night about racism but have zero understanding of the workings and impact of capitalism." i supposed you're up day and night observing these talks? did a failure to understand capitalism stop cosby and every other brother and sister who made it? i suppose every black should stop what they're doing and study capitalism: they should starve to death before they do one more thing if they haven't mastered the study of capitalism. what is this garbage?
you end your posting with this highly original paragraph:
: Indeed, to repeat myself, even if his words could be
: turned into a program (or programs) and successfully
: remade the so-called underclass the end result - after
: all was said and done - would be another descent into
: ennui since racialism and capitialism [sic] would, once
: again, prevent that energy, directed towards
: capitalist defined success, from creating a
: sustainable infrastructure for the majority.
you didn't repeat yourself because nothing in this paragraph refers to anything anywhere else in your posting. "ennui"? are you too bored to survive, dude?
what does "successfully remade the so-called [so-called? if it's "so-called" why use the term?] underclass the end result - after all was said and done" mean? after who says it's all "said and done"?
i hesitate to ask what you're talking about when you write "another [another? what were the past ones?] descent into ennui since racialism and capitalism would, once again, [again?] prevent that energy, [what energy?] directed toward capitalist defined success, from creating a sustainable infrastructure for the majority." what do you know about "sustainable" infrastructures "for the majority"?
you put this vapid paragraph in your message because you liked the sound of it. not because it says one single understandable thing. you like the sound of your own voice, cousin. this paragraph is unintelligible -- pointless jive like the rest of your posting.
let me make it as simple for your enuied self as i can: if it isn't what you call "capitalism" it would be something else. just like every other black -- as cosby pointed out -- in this racist society you're simply going to have to suck it up and work harder.
i get the impression you don't like cosby because he's talking about you. you'd much rather argue against whites you believe you can con than blacks who call your bluff because they know your blow is a dead end.
R
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwayne Monroe" <idoru345 at yahoo.com> To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org> Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 1:19 PM Subject: [lbo-talk] words for the black community
: R wrote (in apparent praise of Kultur Minister Cosby's
: tirades):
:
: but i'm used to hanging with afro-americans who don't
: feel sorry for themselves; who don't want *anyone* to
: pity or patronize or do it for them; and who have
: proven track records of being able to do what's
: necessary for themselves against whatever odds society
: imposes -- and, like cosby, demand the rest of their
: people do the same. and who are giving back to the
: community.
:
: ..........
:
:
: Wilson Barber replied:
:
:
: I disagee. Bill Cosby is an elitist who diminishes
: the devistation caused by the political/economic
: policies by government and corporation. In addition
: and
: ironically affirmative action has help to create an
: intra-racial class conflict within the Black
: community.
:
: ======================
:
:
:
:
: Yes, precisely.
:
:
: Let's assume, just for the sake of argument, that
: Cosby's "analysis" has merit and should be taken to
: heart because of, among other marvels, his supposed
: track record of "giving back to the community".
:
: What follows from this line of reasoning?
:
:
: Do we (and by "we" adopting R's often stated view of
: group determined causality and responsibility, I mean
: Black people) institute a sweeping self-discipline and
: family integrity program - perhaps along the
: militaristic lines of the Nation of Islam or the old
: Marcus Garvey organization of the early 20th century?
:
: Let's suppose such a Spartanization project, or
: something, is successful and millions of wayward Black
: youth - and their reportedly mush mouthed,
: blame-others-for-all-my-troubles parents - 'get right'
: and step, with near perfect speech, "normal" names and
: starched, white shirts into the blazing sunshine of
: American life at large.
:
: What then comrade?
:
:
: Will they all go to fine schools, graduate, get good
: jobs in nice corporations (or start their own
: businesses) purchase lovely vehicles, move to tidy
: neighborhoods (or transform the ones they're now in to
: showcases) and become well adjusted people safe from
: the criticisms of Kultur Minister Cosby?
:
:
: Perhaps that's too vague so let me cut away the fat.
:
:
: Are there no structural impediments to millions
: (millions we're talking about here) of people
: achieving the sort of success - within the narrow
: scope of the capitalist system - Cosby demands of
: them? Is the US producing the volume of educational
: and employment opportunities necessary to absorb and
: direct this vast population of unwanteds?
:
: The collapse of the 1960's Civil Rights vision of
: success was as a direct result of that vision running
: smack up against two factors: racism (sorry to be
: vague Woj) and capitalism.
:
: Now in some circles people talk all day and night
: about racism but have zero understanding of the
: workings and impact of capitalism.
:
: It was all very well and good to win voting rights and
: the rest of it. But the material basis of the
: pleasant middle-class-itude Cosby yearns to see cannot
: be created for the maximum number of people so long as
: capitalism dominates our life and our dreams.
:
: Why are more Whites doing well? Because the benefits
: of capitalism (such as they are for workers) are
: directed through a racialist filter.
:
:
: Cosby's words are less than zero to me because they
: come from nothing - as in, no analysis of the material
: conditions - and lead to nowhere since we cannot make
: the changes he demands on the scale he longs to see.
:
:
: Indeed, to repeat myself, even if his words could be
: turned into a program (or programs) and successfully
: remade the so-called underclass the end result - after
: all was said and done - would be another descent into
: ennui since racialism and capitialism would, once
: again, prevent that energy, directed towards
: capitalist defined success, from creating a
: sustainable infrastructure for the majority.
:
:
:
:
: .d.
: ___________________________________
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