i posted the original posting of this thread, which prefaced with a brief, one paragraph opinion of my own on the issue. i guess you read the entire posting -- most importantly the purpose of the posting: cosby's comments?
wilson barber's following posting under the same thread was about cosby's opinions and was a very open, sincere criticism of cosby as an "elitist," stating cosby was nothing more than "an expression of intra-racial class conflict" [when i personally believe he and his life are a lot more than that], a man who can't speak "credibly on the condition of most blacks living in urban areas" where cosby was raised; and etc. i responded to barber's posting, again expressing my opinions about what he wrote and about racial issues. as far as i know, neither the list or i have received a response from barber.
dwayne followed wilson and my postings with a posting of his own opening with his words "yes, exactly" expressing his absolute agreement with everything wilson barber expressed about cosby and about affirmative action. dwayne's posting also opened with two brief quotes, one from wilson and one from me. i found dwayne's posting to be ... well, i elaborated what i found dwayne's posting to be in my posting of july 3, 2004, 1:44 AM. i'd be surprised if he gave a shit ... outwardly. ;-)
my posting focused on dwayne's highly negative and misleading comments about cosby himself, cosby's comments, and about racial issues. i addressed the issue of race in context of dwayne's often confused comments, since i was addressing his posting; and, as you so reasonably requested, joanna, offered my own opinions. my posting received a strong negative response from kelley and doug.
my post -- which you characterized as hard to understand due to its "defensiveness" -- in response to kelley and doug's posting to me probably won't make much sense unless one reads and understands what i wrote dwayne. since doug wrote that my post to dwayne was "obnoxious" and kelley wrote that i'd written a racist attack against dwayne, who's allegedly endured "racist crap" all his life, it might be understandable if i reacted a wee bit defensively, right? particularly when these accusations are unmerited. i might have ignored their criticisms. but since i believed and still believe they are nonsense, i chose to respond.
i would have preferred to deal with the matter off list, leaving the list to a worthwhile discussion of racism rather than of me! but since they posted to the list, i responded to the list. i apologize for the fact my last post was directed primarily to kelley and doug. i'm not surprised you found it off putting
i respectfully disagree with you, joanna: the postings from the moment i posted the first message of this thread were about cosby. what i posted was his opinion piece. a members of the list responded with an attack on cosby (his perfect right), a second member responded with an attack on cosby and me, then other members responded with attacks on me when i defended cosby, and etc.
cosby's character and his opinions are very much at the root and focus of this thread, as i hope you can now agree. i don't think this is confusing at all. i'm sorry to have taken this much space explaining. but i believe your point deserves a complete answer.
i believe i've been offering my thoughts and opinions regarding racism to the list where ever i thought they would be a contribution to the discussion -- and when i believed i had something to say. i recently posted comment today in answer to a posting from Jon Johanning which i hope was of some contribution to the discussion. i'm not shy about expressing my opinions, joanna, which you've probably noticed. ;-) and i appreciate your flattering, tactful and thoughtful request that i post them.
one reason i posted cosby's speech was that it represents opinion one does not hear every day unless one has rather intimate exposure to blacks, and not necessarily even then. and represents opinion which otherwise would *never* be heard on this list, for reasons which are now, i believe, apparent. i hoped it could be of some use to list members rather than a lightning rod of opposition for the weak, ignorant and fearful. for this same reason, i at times may introduce opinions of blacks i know, respect and trust. just as list members post interesting articles, material from blogs, commentary, etc, to this list, i post [with doug's gracious permission] what i believe members might find interesting, informative and useful.
best, R
----- Original Message ----- From: "joanna bujes" <jbujes at covad.net> To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org> Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] words for the black community
: You might be confused as to what this list is about: it's not about
: winners and losers; it's not about black/white; it's not a suffering
: contest.
:
: It's a forum for discussion. I have found Dwayne's posts to be
: intelligent, rational, clear, well-written, and so forth. Sometimes I
: disagree with him. That's fine. The list is not about marching in lock
: step, but in seeing whether our collective intelligence can come up with
: anything better than what any one person can come up with. Most often
: this collective intelligence functions well and productively.
:
: I cannot tell what your last post was about because of its
: defensiveness. Never mind about Cosby. Biography or no, none of us has
: any idea about who the guy really is. The larger, more interesting issue
: that was raised, was that of racism in the U.S. -- how it has shifted
: shapes in the last fifty years and how we need to address it now.
:
: Leaving Kelly, Dwayne, Cosby, and your wife to the side for right now,
: what are your thoughts on this issue?
:
: Joanna
:
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: