[lbo-talk] Re: Marginality

Joseph Wanzala jwanzala at hotmail.com
Thu Jul 8 10:33:31 PDT 2004


The evidence shows both Doug and Chuck to be wrong. Marginal ideas like the JFK assasination and govt. conspiracies have been long been popularized by the mainstream: e.g. Oliver Stone's 'JFK', Fox TV's the X-Files (the movie version was sold out in San Francisco before it even opened) and a long tradition of 'conspiracy-type' movies like The Conversation and Mel Gibson's 'Conspiracy Theory'. There were are always furious debates among 'the marginals' about the merits of these movies, and of course the more incendiary ones like JFK were attacked by the mainstream and establishment left much like the marginal left is now criticizing Moore documentary. So there is no 'sellout-syndrome' here in terms of marginal ideas entering popular culture. The sellout lies in whether marginal ideas are diluted to pander to the effete liberals - as with Moore's F-911 - not in success at the box office.

And incidentally, as to the debate raging over F-911 - Moore did not start the debate, he inserted himself into a controversial and heated discussion that has been going on for three years. He and his defenders shoudl not be surprised that there are many rich critiques of Moore. Indeed, it is the people offering these critiques that Moore borrowed his ideas from to make the film.

Joe W.

_______________

Doug Henwood wrote:

Laurence Shute wrote:

Where does "marginality" end and principle begin?

That's a good question. Sometimes standing for a principle will marginalize you. But from years of watching left thinking and organizations, I've concluded that for some people the marginalization itself is a marker of principle, and that any kind of success is a sure sign of a sellout. So, since Moore is packing them in, he must be a hack or an apologist or a whore.

Kind of like how the conservatives play the "victim."

I hate being marginal. My goals as an anarchist have revolved around popularizing anarchist ideas and analysis for the mainstream. But Doug has a point about the Left adopting marginality as a badge of honor. Leftists who are successful get cut down, or accused of selling out. And then we sabotage our projects by trying to alienate the "normals."

Chuck0



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