[lbo-talk] 2d Amendment/Rule of Law (Was: The curse of literacy)

Jordan Hayes jmhayes at j-o-r-d-a-n.com
Fri Jul 23 20:15:01 PDT 2004



> I have no idea what the militia that is not part of
> the National Guard is.

Like you said, you gotta just read the text.


> Btw, the provision doesn't say "unorganized."

Well uh, yes it does.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/311.html

Sec. 311. - Militia: composition and classes (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied

males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in

section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are,

or who have made a declaration of intention to become,

citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the

United States who are members of the National Guard. (b)

The classes of the militia are -

(1)

the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard

and the Naval Militia; and

(2)

the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of

the militia who are not members of the National Guard or

the Naval Militia

Interestingly, the VPOTUS is not in the militia (see the next section, 312 for details of who else is exempt)!

And Doug says he's shocked to learn that he's part of the militia [sorry Liza!] (wait, are you under 45?), but:

http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/1999/1999-November/019848.html


> Whatever it means, it can't possibly mean that a citizen who isn't
> part of some well-regulated organization necessary to the security
> of the state has a right to bear arms.

Why not? I'd say that Title 10, Chapter 13, Section 311 (b)(2) pretty well regulates the organization of us unorganized citizens. Wasn't that what was missing? Some definition of "well-regulated" ...?


> The 2A fans want to have an individual right to bear arms, not
> as part of a group, independently of regulation, and having
> nothing to do with the security of a free state.

I'm not sure that's a fair characterization of "2A fans" -- I'm sure some think that's true, but it's too broad for my tastes. Hardly anyone reasonable says it can't be regulated -- afterall, 1A is regulated -- but I think the "fans" would prefer not quite so much regulation. Getting back to the original thread, it's possible that things like "concealed carry" vis the 2nd could be likened to "hate speech" in the 1st. Or maybe even possession by felons: afterall, in most states when a felon finishes his sentence, he gets a lot of his rights back; why not the 2nd? He gets his right to hate speech back.

A real issue is that, for all the hub-bub, I don't think there are that many laws out there that I think qualify as good tests for constitutionality: many of the "gun control" laws on the books are just increases in the size of prohibited classes or have particular items (such as was used in the Miller test, like "assault weapons" [sic]) to prohibit.

Maybe DC (though that right there makes it tricky) or NYC's outright gun prohibition. That's why I liked the Emerson case: on the face of it, it seems "wrong" that someone can lose something from the BOR without having done something even remotely criminal. "You're getting divorced: Soldiers can be quartered in your house."


> Even if it's a Bad Thing, it's the law.

Is Title 10 the law?


> right now, the 2A means, no individual right to bear arms

That seems silly in the "shall issue" states who quote 2A in their own constitutions.

/jordan



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