> the names of the hijackers were all fake identities
------- Forwarded message ------- From: "Michael Pugliese" <michael098762001 at earthlink.net> To: debsian at lists.riseup.net Subject: Re: [debsian] World Socialist web site assessment of the 9-11 commission report Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 09:30:29 -0700
Do you read anything but those websites like http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/
Ever google around from critiques of them like, http://www.sicmuse.com/weblog/
Ever read (or know about?) more informed books on the CIA and Osama bin Laden like, "Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden From the Soviet Invasion to Sept. 10, 2001, " or, "Reaping the Whirlwind, " published by Pluto Press, founded by a IMG Trotskyist?
Did you not see on TV this week the airport surveillance tapes of the 9-11 hijackers going through the check-in?
You are relying on very dated "info" to "support" your line that there were no 19 hijackers, 15 from the KSA and 4 from elsewhere. Oh, I guess Langley has access to some genetic engineering lab at Chiron to manufacture clones, eh?! http://www.google.com/search?q=Arabs+on+the+list+Flight+77 http://bit.ch/217.php Re: Were there no Arabs on Flight 77?, by someone on Oct 13, 2003 [reply] When examining the pathology of the conspiracy theories, there can be few finer examples of the genre to consider than Still No Arabs On Flight 77 [2]. What follows is an analysis of some of the claims and assumptions made in this highly provocative theory. It is NOT an attempt to identify the terrorists aboard Flight 77, either by name or ethnicity. Rather, it is simply a piece that shows how the author, Thomas R. Olmsted, makes seemingly innocuous claims that should be subject to close scrutiny, and how, in an effort to quickly home in on his ‘issue’, he makes critical logical ‘errors’.
Basically, the author claims to have found a “smoking gun� in the form of victim lists from American Flight 77 (Pentagon murders) that supposedly proves there were no Arabs aboard the plane. In part 1 of his two part ‘expose’ he writes:
“This is the list provided by American of the 56 passengers: http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/AA77.victims.html� [2] [3]
In part 2, he writes:
“I attempted on three occasions to obtain a final passenger list from American Airlines. They refuse to give a list and in fact WON’T EVEN VERIFY THAT THEY GAVE THE FIRST LIST TO CNN.� [4] (My emphasis with the caps.)
That’s because American didn’t give the list to CNN. In fact, the only suggestion that the original CNN list at [3] was provided by American Airlines seems to have originated entirely from Olmsted. In fact, American Airlines deliberately withheld from the press some of the passengers’ names in deference to the wishes of victims’ families [5].
CNN actually explains where that the information comes from - Associated Press, and this organisation bases its information on:
“CONFIRMED DEAD Includes victims who have been confirmed dead by a coroner's office or the Defense Department. It also includes those a court has declared legally dead, even if no body has been recovered. Once the court has made such a finding, a death certificate can be issued.
REPORTED DEAD Includes those whose deaths have been reported by family, employers, mortuaries, places of worship or by the airlines that listed them as aboard one of the four flights. Includes people for whom memorial services have been held, even if their bodies have not been recovered or positively identified. (Those identified by federal authorities as the hijackers are not included).� (Find by clicking on the ‘About this site’ link at [6].)
At this point, Olmsted’s theory is nearly dead in the water. Much of the evidence for his conjecture is based on inconsistency in the victim lists. When you realise that the public list (via Associated Press) was a dynamic document that listed more victims as they were confirmed dead or reported, the alleged inconsistencies indicate nothing more than the incompleteness of available information at the time of the original CNN report. Hence there is nothing remotely sinister about the Ploger victims showing up on the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology list despite their absence from the CNN list.
Now, let’s take a critical look at Olmsted’s maths:
Observe, if you will, his FOIA list, and compare it with the CNN list at Table 1 below:
(Sorry, but if you'll have to rebuild the table)
Autopsy Name CNN Name Comment Number Number 1 ambrose, paul 1 Paul Ambrose, 32 2 betruyen, eneh 2 Yeneneh Betru, 35 3 booth, mary jane 3 M.J. Booth 4 brown, bernard 4 Bernard Brown, 11 5 burlingame,charles 5 Charles Burlingame Crew 6 calley, suzanne 6 Suzanne Calley, 42 7 caswell, william 7 William Caswell 8 charlebois, david 8 David Charlebois Crew 9 clark, sarah 9 Sarah Clark, 65 10 cotto, masia 10 Asia Cottom, 11 11 debeuneure, james 11 James Debeuneure, 58 12 dickens, rodney 12 Rodney Dickens, 11 13 dillar, deddie 13 Eddie Dillard 14 droz, chuck 14 Charles Droz 15 edwards, barbara 15 Barbara Edwards, 58 16 falkenberg,charles 16 Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, 17 falkenberg, zoe 17 Zoe Falkenberg, 8 18 18 (Dana Falkenberg.)* 19 ferguson, james 19 Joe Ferguson 20 flagg, darlene 20 Dee Flagg 21 flagg,wilson 21 Wilson "Bud" Flagg 22 gabriel, richard 22 Richard Gabriel 23 gray, ian 23 Ian Gray, 55 24 hall, stanley 24 Stanley Hall, 68 25 heidenberger, michelle 25 Michele Heidenberger Crew 26 jack, bryan 26 Bryan Jack, 48 27 jacoby, steven 27 Steven D. "Jake" Jacoby, 43 28 judge, ann 28 Ann Judge, 49 29 keller, chandler 29 Chandler Keller, 29 30 kennedy, yvonne 30 Yvonne Kennedy 31 khan, norma 31 Norma Khan, 45 32 kincaid, karen 32 Karen A. Kincaid, 40 33 lee, dong 33 Dong Lee 34 lewis, jennifer 34 Jennifer Lewis, 38 Crew 35 lewis, kenneth 35 Kenneth Lewis, 49 Crew 36 may, renee 36 Renee May, 39 Crew 37 mencha, cadora 37 Dora Menchaca, 45 38 newton, christopher 38 Christopher Newton, 38 39 olson, barbara 39 Barbara Olson, 45 40 ornedo, ruben 40 Ruben Ornedo, 39 41 penninger, robert 41 Robert Penniger, 63 42 ploger, robert 42 43 ploger, zandra 43 44 raines, lisa 44 Lisa Raines, 42 45 reuben, todd 45 Todd Reuben, 40 46 sammartino, john 46 John Sammartino 47 simmons, diane 47 Diane Simmons 48 simmons, george 48 George Simmons 49 sopper, mari-rae 49 Mari-Rae Sopper 50 speisman, robert 50 Bob Speisman, 47 51 steuerle, norma 51 Norma Langsteuerle 52 taylor, hilda 52 Hilda Taylor 53 taylor, leonard 53 Leonard Taylor 54 teagues, andra 54 55 whittington, leslie 55 Leslie A. Whittington, 45 56 yamnicky, john 56 John Yamnicky, 71 57 yancey, vicki 57 Vicki Yancey 58 yangs, huyin 58 Shuyin Yang 59 zheng, yuguag 59 Yuguag Zheng *The body of toddler Dana Falkenberg was not identified amid the rubble. [2] [7]
Table 1. Olmsted’s FOIA AFIP list of victims versus CNN.
We have already discounted the figure of 56 provided by CNN as incomplete for quite innocent reasons. But then he persists with the 58 identified on the AFIP list, without taking into account Dana Falkenberg, who was also believed to be on the plane according to the AFIP (Olmsted acknowledges this claim when he says:
“…that [the AFIP] were not able to identify…the toddler, Dana Falkenberg, whose parents and young sister are on the list of those identified…� [2]
However, she is listed elsewhere on the Net as one of the victims. [7]
So, 58 + Dana =59.
So we now have a figure of 59 passengers. Who could have made up the five missing from the total of 64? (Drum roll please…) The alleged terrorists, of course (see Table 2 below).
Alleged Terrorists 1 Khalid Al-Midhar 2 Majed Moqed 3 Nawaq Alhamzi 4 Salem Alhamzi 5 Hani Hanjour
Table 2. Alleged terrorists aboard American Airlines Flight 77
With the statement, “No Arabs wound up on the morgue slab…� Olmsted runs completely off the rails by insisting that the terrorists were on the AFIP ‘autopsy list’ of 58 (59 less Dana Falkenberg). Of course, they were not, and therefore Olmsted’s conspiracy theory is dead in the water. His fundamental assertion is that he has proved that there were no Arabs aboard American Flight 77 because they could not be identified in, or by comparison of, passenger lists and passenger photographs [4]. But the terrorists were never included in those lists. Rather, they were among the remaining unnamed passengers that made up the 64 on board. (In fact, the CNN site specifically states that the terrorists are not listed among the 56 names on its tribute site at [3]. A simple subtraction from the 58/59 AFIP list should have given Olmsted a big clue that the terrorists were unnamed on both lists.)
Olmsted follows up this erroneous thinking with some seriously weird stuff reported at [4]. I encourage readers to visit the site listed at [4] to see the sort of allegations that are the real ‘issue’ that Olmsted seeks to pursue.
Okay, so why weren’t the five alleged terrorists included on the AFIP list?
The answer is simple. These alleged criminals are subject to an ongoing investigation, and, as such, their identities are subject to exemption from FOIA searches. [9]
So there it is. Olmsted has created a classic conspiracy theory. While camouflaged under a pastiche of facts, several vital pillars of the edifice turn out to be false assumptions (there was no “American Airlines list� provided to the press - there were 64, not 58 passengers - the terrorists were not included in the “autopsy list�). Close examination of Olmsted’s assumptions and reasoning reveal there need be no missing Arabs at all.
This work does not prove anything about the five remaining unidentified passengers. In fact, there is significant doubt over the true identity of at least four of the 19 hijackers that fateful day. This work does show, however, that the five unnamed passengers explain where the missing Arabs could have got to, and that’s all that is required to disprove the Olmsted thesis.
[1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm
[2] http://www.rense.com/general38/77.htm
[3] http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/AA77.victims.html
[4] http://www.sierratimes.com/03/07/07/article_tro_flight77.htm
[5] http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2001/09/12/story23539.asp
[6] http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/memorial/
[7] http://inmemoriamonline.net/List_AA77.html
[8] http://www.armymedicine.army.mil/news/releases/afip.htm
[9] http://www.tncrimlaw.com/foia/VI_F_7.html
Re: Were there no Arabs on Flight 77?, by someone on Oct 14, 2003 [reply] ah, but wait:
16 falkenberg,charles 16 Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, 17 falkenberg, zoe 17 Zoe Falkenberg, 8 18 18 (Dana Falkenberg.)*
Where is the mother - if "...Dana Falkenberg, whose parents and young sister are on the list of those identified…" what was Mrs Falkenbergs name on above list? I don't see a Mrs Falkenberg, nor a hyphenated Maidenname- Falkenberg. What was her name? Re: Re: Were there no Arabs on Flight 77?, by dabitch on Oct 14, 2003 [reply] aw c'mon, I guess you didn't get what the other "someone" said, huh? Re: Were there no Arabs on Flight 77?, by dabitch on Oct 27, 2003 [reply] Here's another good debunking - sport commenting style by Paul and Patrick, in regards to the missing Boing.
http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/Post911/dubious_claims.html
Portugese experts...I answered that before. You believe De Grande, a fascist loon?
-- Michael Pugliese