[lbo-talk] Why we can't talk about it....[was Racism; was Farenheit 9/11]

R rhisiart at charter.net
Tue Jun 29 13:30:02 PDT 2004


there are so many postings directed, or citing me, correctly and incorrectly, that it's an embarrassment of riches. i don't know where to start. since to respond to them all would be to continue going over doug's posting limits, which i really don't want to do, i won't respond to all. the characterizations, for better or for worse, will have to stand in all their biased glory.

i'm glad the discussion has started and is well on its way. that was my only purpose. i had to write what i had to write to accomplish that. and it's done. now joanna won't write that the subject is ignored. ;-) at least not on this message board.

please pan down.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwayne Monroe" <idoru345 at yahoo.com> To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org> Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 7:05 AM Subject: [lbo-talk] Why we can't talk about it....[was Racism;was Farenheit 9/11]


: joanna wrote:
:
:
: I admit "racism" is a big topic. Still, I was
: unprepared for the many ways people didn't really want
: to talk about it. First, you had to show your
: passport: What is your race? That's bound to affect
: what you say about race and whether it is valid or
: not. Right? Then there was the argument that if the
: right mix of dominant and minority participants didn't
: happen, the discussion would not be meaningful. Next,
: it was feared the topic would be too big, too
: abstract, might veer off in too many directions...
: Finally, there was the "everyone understands racism in
: different ways..." relativistic objection.
:
: ==============
:
:
: But you see, I don't think anyone was - is - avoiding
: discussing racism at all and, if you trace the origin
: of this latest series of threads on the topic, you'll
: note that the manner in which people expressed
: themselves (including showing their "passports") were
: reactions to the way R asked his original question
: (paraphrasing now) "why don't you talk about race
: here?"

incorrect, but well intentioned.

followed closely with the assertion "I want
: minorities to take the lead."

incorrect. but well intentioned. my point was i personally would not find a discussion of race rewarding without full minority participation. that's only me, folks. if you'd rather it be a discussion with no, or little minority participation, that's your preference.


:
: This is what set the course for subsequent threads.
: Indeed, the discussion of how large and abstract the
: topic is (my contribution, if memory serves - see
: http://makeashorterlink.com/?C2D713DA8 ) was a direct
: response to R's implied suggestion we could hash out
: the ins and outs of racism in a discussion thread by
: asking really simple questions such as "how are we
: White folks doing?".

totally off the mark and out of context. i asked this question tongue in cheek because charles brown stated that it was up to white people to take the lead. i wondered how charles thought we were doing so far. and, if you'd read my posting, i sort of answered my own question a bit later on.

dwayne, if you're going to quote me, please get it right.

I wasn't saying that racism, due
: to its great width and breadth, is a topic beyond our
: abilities but rather that it has to be tackled from a
: multitude of vectors - some psychological, others
: political, others policy related, etc.
:
: R seemed to be saying that folks here were running for
: the hills whenever racism was on the table,

again, "seemed". couldn't you have called me on this mistaken assumption you made rather than interpret what i wrote incorrectly? we're really spinning our wheels when the communication is based on what one side assumes the other means rather than what i really mean.

my reply
: was that racism is discussed quite often, not as a
: unified field of thought and action but as a component
: of other discussions - apparently fragmented, but all
: moving in a similar direction.

that's an inaccurate assumption, dwayne. i didn't say that. and if i "seemed" to be saying that, why didn't you ask me to elaborate rather than assume?


:
: The very good post from Chuck Grimes you included is a
: case in point. Chuck's dissection of coded language
: in political campaigning is an important description
: of one way the problem manifests itself.
:
: But it's only one of many. So we could have a
: discussion of how this language coding works but this
: wouldn't be a complete description of racism as a
: whole.
:
: Another avatar, racist patterns in housing, is a big
: part of the puzzle but so big in and of itself as to
: deserve its own thread.
:
: And so on and so forth.
:
:
: No, I don't see any reluctance to discuss racism; what
: I see, or rather what R inspired, was a stated
: reluctance to assume it could handled all at a go
: instead of being part of an ongoing discussion of the
: workings of the world.:
:
: .d.

thanks for referring to my writing as inspiring. but you've completely missed my point.

R
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