i'm glad the discussion has started and is well on its way. that was my only purpose. i had to write what i had to write to accomplish that. and it's done. now joanna won't write that the subject is ignored. ;-) at least not on this message board.
please pan down.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwayne Monroe" <idoru345 at yahoo.com> To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org> Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 7:05 AM Subject: [lbo-talk] Why we can't talk about it....[was Racism;was Farenheit 9/11]
: joanna wrote:
:
:
: I admit "racism" is a big topic. Still, I was
: unprepared for the many ways people didn't really want
: to talk about it. First, you had to show your
: passport: What is your race? That's bound to affect
: what you say about race and whether it is valid or
: not. Right? Then there was the argument that if the
: right mix of dominant and minority participants didn't
: happen, the discussion would not be meaningful. Next,
: it was feared the topic would be too big, too
: abstract, might veer off in too many directions...
: Finally, there was the "everyone understands racism in
: different ways..." relativistic objection.
:
: ==============
:
:
: But you see, I don't think anyone was - is - avoiding
: discussing racism at all and, if you trace the origin
: of this latest series of threads on the topic, you'll
: note that the manner in which people expressed
: themselves (including showing their "passports") were
: reactions to the way R asked his original question
: (paraphrasing now) "why don't you talk about race
: here?"
incorrect, but well intentioned.
followed closely with the assertion "I want
: minorities to take the lead."
incorrect. but well intentioned. my point was i personally would not find a discussion of race rewarding without full minority participation. that's only me, folks. if you'd rather it be a discussion with no, or little minority participation, that's your preference.
:
: This is what set the course for subsequent threads.
: Indeed, the discussion of how large and abstract the
: topic is (my contribution, if memory serves - see
: http://makeashorterlink.com/?C2D713DA8 ) was a direct
: response to R's implied suggestion we could hash out
: the ins and outs of racism in a discussion thread by
: asking really simple questions such as "how are we
: White folks doing?".
totally off the mark and out of context. i asked this question tongue in cheek because charles brown stated that it was up to white people to take the lead. i wondered how charles thought we were doing so far. and, if you'd read my posting, i sort of answered my own question a bit later on.
dwayne, if you're going to quote me, please get it right.
I wasn't saying that racism, due
: to its great width and breadth, is a topic beyond our
: abilities but rather that it has to be tackled from a
: multitude of vectors - some psychological, others
: political, others policy related, etc.
:
: R seemed to be saying that folks here were running for
: the hills whenever racism was on the table,
again, "seemed". couldn't you have called me on this mistaken assumption you made rather than interpret what i wrote incorrectly? we're really spinning our wheels when the communication is based on what one side assumes the other means rather than what i really mean.
my reply
: was that racism is discussed quite often, not as a
: unified field of thought and action but as a component
: of other discussions - apparently fragmented, but all
: moving in a similar direction.
that's an inaccurate assumption, dwayne. i didn't say that. and if i "seemed" to be saying that, why didn't you ask me to elaborate rather than assume?
:
: The very good post from Chuck Grimes you included is a
: case in point. Chuck's dissection of coded language
: in political campaigning is an important description
: of one way the problem manifests itself.
:
: But it's only one of many. So we could have a
: discussion of how this language coding works but this
: wouldn't be a complete description of racism as a
: whole.
:
: Another avatar, racist patterns in housing, is a big
: part of the puzzle but so big in and of itself as to
: deserve its own thread.
:
: And so on and so forth.
:
:
: No, I don't see any reluctance to discuss racism; what
: I see, or rather what R inspired, was a stated
: reluctance to assume it could handled all at a go
: instead of being part of an ongoing discussion of the
: workings of the world.:
:
: .d.
thanks for referring to my writing as inspiring. but you've completely missed my point.
R
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