: At 11:57 PM 6/28/2004, R wrote:
: >welcome to the foray, doug. ;-)
: >
: >did i say anybody had a racial duty? you can do your bit for the
downfall
: >of shrub as a human being.
: >
: >whites have spent more than enough time trying to run black people's
lives,
: >here, the caribbean and in africa. and are still doing it. just like our
: >white dominated govt is doing in iraq. don't you think we ought to let
the
: >black community handle their own problems? any harm if i ask if they
have a
: >plan?
: >
: >you're damn right i believe whites have a responsibility to take care of
our
: >own messes.
:
: the "neanderthals" in the black community ARE our messes. to suggest that
: they are the sole property of blacks and to expect them to have a plan
when
: they are daily struggling to survive under conditions of racist oppression
: .... it just boggles my mind!
kelley, this is one mean, inaccurate stereotype. not every black in this country is "daily struggling to survive under conditions of racist oppression." most blacks i know would no more permit you to label them with this characterization than they would volunteer to be lynched or raped. and that includes the blacks in my family. give them a little credit will you. and stop casting yourself as the only one who cares about and understands the downtrodden.
when the black community asks you to take care of their neanderthals for them, you let me know.
and it doesn't just boggle my mind that
: somehow these folk are supposed to be assigned to certain groups to deal
: with. it also boggles my mind that dealing with them even matters. we
: aren't going to educate them out of their 'neanderthalism'? it's not a
: problem of 'bad thinking'. it's a problem of social structure:
: institutions, practices, norms, ideologies, etc.
swell. so while the neaderthals do their damage to all of us, we'll screw around with problems of social structure, instutitions, practices, norms, ideologies, etc., and not accomplish a thing. the right wing is laughing up it's sleeve, or out loud
:
: you started out this conversation on a very bad foot: you wagged your
: finger at everyone and told us that we were all racist because no one ever
: discussed racism. you set yourself up as superior.
that's absolute nonesense. i'm tired of you trying to lay a guilt trip on me because i suggested the group consider a thread about racism, and you don't like my writing style. you have a problem with authority that you're projecting onto me. it's tiresome and tedious. i'm not superior to anyone; a fact i went to great and patient labors to explain to you in my detailed response to your last posting to me, which evidently you misunderstood.
then you went on to take
: the position of interrogator. "How do you think we're doing on the racism
: issue, Charles?" (to paraphrase)
quite paraphrasing and give me a direct quote. your paraphrases are spun to back your bias. i explained to dwayne in a separate posting how and why i asked charles this particular question. i'm not going to explain it over again to you. read the other posting if you care.
:
: huh? His and other black people's job is to give us a report card and tell
: us where we are going right and wrong? I dont think so.
give me a break.
:
: WE are perfectly capable of knowing whether we are doing well or not and i
: doubt there is one white person on this list that thinks that we do ok in
: the antiracism department, whether on this list or in as a nation.
:
no shit?
: > since whites are the ones benefiting from racism, and always
: >have been, we're the ones that bear the responsibility to do something
: >about it. do you expect black FBI officers to infiltrated KKK meetings?
how
: >about some black CIA guys checking out the russian mafia? sure i'm
: >stretching a point. shrub is 100 percent white america; your fellow
yalie.
: >he and his pals are our doo doo and we need to clean it up. you expect
the
: >blacks to do it for us?
: >
: >since this is purportedly a discussion of racism, i put the matter in
racial
: >terms. is this something you've never heard before?
:
: well, I certainly have never heard that "neanderthals" in the black
: community are a problem that can be assigned to blacks and blacks alone.
that's right. and you didn't hear it from me, either. i've already explained my point in this regard; i'm not going to do it again.
: they are a product of a capitalist society that operates in and through
: interlinking systems of oppression. Thus, they are _our_ problem. But our
: job isn't to educate the Clarence Thomases of the world. It's to change
the
: conditions in which Clarence Thomas thrives. That doesn't mean we have to
: wait for revolution. Rather, it means we have to create and constantly
: widen the spaces within which alternative ways of understanding and
dealing
: with capitalist society are cultivated and flourish. It is those spaces
: that will give birth to that revolution and they will be the institutions
: and practices upon which we erect a non-racist, socialist future,
together.
and we're doing so well at this, our society's been moving backward in this area for about 25 years. and by society, i mean all of us.
:
: it's a false dichotomy. it's not either whites take care of them or blacks
: take care of them. It's about the quality of an analysis as to why they
: exist in the first place.
:
analyse until the cows come home. while you're analysing, the problems get worse.
: I'm absolutely certain you know all this and are just having a hard time
: articulating it. I hope this helps.:
:
: Kelley
:
you've been a big help, kelley, as always.
i said what i had to say to get a discussion going. that's all i care about: a discussion. i stated my preferences and left it up the members to decide. what the board does with the subject and where it takes it is *entirely* up the membership and doug.
despite your nagging and bias, i've never accused you or anyone on this board of being a racist, i've never set myself up as superior, and i don't interrogate. you could use some help in understanding yourself regarding how you came to see me in this false light. i'm at your service just as you're at mine.
R
:
:
:
:
:
: >you keep doing your bit, a white guy policing the white economic power
: >elite. you're very good at it.
: >
: >R
: >
: >
: >
: >----- Original Message -----
: >From: "Doug Henwood" <dhenwood at panix.com>
: >To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
: >Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 7:34 PM
: >Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Comment on F-9/11
: >
: >
: >: R wrote:
: >:
: >: >these names aren't my rogues gallery. they're the black community's
: >rogues
: >: >gallery. they are the black community's ronald reagans, jesse helms,
: >strom
: >: >thurmonds, madelline albrights, et al. perhaps, all the analysis
that's
: >: >necessary has been written. since us white folks have to deal with
our
: >: >neaderthals, what's the plan in the black community to deal with
yours?
: >:
: >: Why the fuck is it their racial duty? Am I supposed to do my bit for
: >: the downfall of W as a white guy policing my race? That's nutty.
: >:
: >: Doug
: >: ___________________________________
: >: http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
: >:
: >
: >
: >___________________________________
: >http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
:
: "We're in a fucking stagmire."
:
: --Little Carmine, 'The Sopranos'
:
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: