[Interview with Kakha Katsitadze, doctor of philosophical sciences, professor at Tbilisi State University, and military expert, by Izo Rikadze; place and date not given: "According to Russian Government, Georgia Is Satan. Restricting Democracy Is Greatest Stupidity"]
[Excerpt] [passage omitted on President Mikheil Saakashvili's speech at the UN General Assembly session; Defense Minister Giorgi Baramidze's meeting with his US counterpart Donald Rumsfeld; issues that Saakashvili will have to address upon his return]
[Katsitadze] During his speech at the UN General Assembly, Mikheil Saakashvili talked about resolving the conflicts. I think that his emphases were correctly laid. The president was right to say that the population of the conflict zones should consolidate their relations and restore the mutual trust that has been lost. All the post-Soviet conflicts are frozen today. None of them has been resolved. This is why it would have been better if Mikheil Saakashvili had said that the [proposed] international conference should be devoted to the resolution of all post-Soviet conflicts, not just the South Ossetian one. I mean the Dniester Region, Samachablo [South Ossetia], Abkhazia, Nagorno-Karabakh, and, just imagine, Chechnya as well.
The president also noted that no country will have its [military] bases stationed in Georgia. He was right because the classic stationary military bases have become obsolete. During the Cold War, the United States had four divisions and armaments sufficient for six divisions in Germany. Today, such bases are being withdrawn from Germany and even from South Korea! There is no doubt that the Russian bases that are on our territory must leave and a flexible infrastructure equipped with intelligence and radio-electronic facilities which NATO will use in coordination with us should be created instead. Russia has an idee fixe that the Americans will intrude into its territory from Georgia. However, we are not going to station US divisions here and the Americans are not even thinking about this either. Given our geopolitical situation, a flexible system of bases has to be created in Georgia. If, let us say, there is a need to move troops to Central Asia, Georgia should have two or three airports (and fuel reserves) that will fulfill this function.
[Rikadze] The building of the Georgian state is proceeding in quite difficult conditions. The two internal conflicts that have not yet been resolved are being exacerbated by Russia's tricks in Samachablo and Abkhazia. It will always try to hamper our struggle for territorial integrity.
[Katsitadze] Russia has always behaved this way but I expect the real threat, which will appear in five or 10 years time, to come from the North Caucasus, not from Russia. The Chechen struggle for independence has now unfortunately turned into an Islamist movement that intends to form a caliphate-like state in the North Caucasus. And, evidently, Russia will lose this war. All scenarios of the anticipated struggle -- Russia's defeat, victory, or continuation of the war -- are disadvantageous for us. This is why Georgia has to prepare for it and strengthen its Army. In the form of Chechnya, Russia has created a virus that will destroy it and we have to make every effort to keep clear of the area of this destruction. In general, terrorism is generated by a certain spiritual condition and material factors have quite a significant influence on the spiritual condition. In the North Caucasus, 85 percent of men aged between 18 and 40 years are unemployed. A special services staffer under the guise of Islam will put 100 "bucks" into their pocket and they will do anything. It is hard to confront the people who have made war and terrorism a source of income.
[Rikadze] The Russian foreign minister voiced a nine-point plan for combating terrorism at the UN General Assembly. How effective are these methods and did [Russian Foreign Minister Sergey] Lavrov's plan, by any chance, mean an indirect attack on Georgia?
[Katsitadze] Aside from being stupid, Lavrov's plan, in fact, also implied aggression against neighboring states. It resembles a Georgian proverb: After failing to subdue the horse, they started breaking the saddle. Russia failed to defeat Chechnya and is now hitting Georgia without realizing that it cannot defeat us either. Georgia is no longer a country that can be easily disregarded and Russia is seriously mistaken in assessing our strength. I remember that during the first Chechnya war, the Russian generals said that [then Russian President Boris] Yeltsin did not let them finish the war. However, Putin is not hampering or stopping them, so why can they not defeat the Chechens? They would not admit that they are ignorant and stupid. They have to blame someone for their lack of military education and inability and, at times like that, Georgia is usually the "chief culprit." The Americans ignore such "lighthearted behavior" on Russia's part while we, for some reason, invariably become angered by their delirium because we still have an exaggerated impression of our neighbor. Believe me, Georgia will no longer have the Russian problem in five years time.
However, I think that we will face quite a long era of so-called cold war with Russia. There are people in power there who are obsessed with sick ideas and think that the world has conspired to destroy Russia's greatness. A psychologist of medium-level qualification will tell you that this is the condition of quiet psychosis. [passage omitted on Russia's considering the United States, Britain, Israel, and Georgia its enemies with whom it is impossible to become reconciled]
[Rikadze] The problem in Samachablo started to thaw but then moved toward an impasse. What do you think we should do after that?
[Katsitadze] Only a show of strength was necessary in Samachablo but it was followed by the use of force as well. A strategic plan should have been elaborated before the start of tactical moves but, apparently, events unfolded chaotically there. However, a certain strategic plan was devised as early as before the [rose] revolution; at any rate, I know that the draft of this plan existed in May 2003 because I too participated in drafting it. I do not know where this draft is and how it was used. At any rate, I have not seen its trace anywhere. Nonetheless, I cannot say that everything was done badly in Tskhinvali [South Ossetia]. Even though soldiers were killed in the trenches, the strategic heights were taken without bloodshed: This was a successful operation. The aforementioned examples demonstrate that some people acted correctly and some did not. I also have to say that I cannot see only the military's fault in the events that unfolded in Tskhinvali; the politicians are responsible too and they will not be able to evade it.
A politician has to set a political goal for the military actions to the military. When the goal is not clear, not only the Georgians, the Americans too will not be able to do anything.
[Rikadze] Is the president's statement that we have to restore territorial integrity, regain Samachablo and Abkhazia not a clear and obvious goal?
[Katsitadze] This might be clear and understandable to a politician but not to the military. [passage omitted on the factors that are important for winning a war]
It is very hard to precisely calculate the military and political aspects but it is possible and has to be done by the National Security Council. [Security Council Secretary] Gela Bezhuashvili is a great guy but I am afraid that the National Security Council is occupied with resolving the current issues in the situation that has taken shape instead of making in-depth conceptual calculations. During the Samachablo conflict, the Security Council was discussing what to provide the Army with and how whereas this was not its business. When one and the same person is tasked with elaborating the long-term strategy and also taking care of Army provisions, the cause will be harmed.
[Rikadze] The Georgian public and political circles (despite confrontation) are unanimous that the country's territorial integrity has to be restored, that we have to build a unified Georgian state. This is the will of the nation, is it not?
[Katsitadze] The Georgians should be guided by the Israeli example. The intention of the Jews to create their own state was a completely irrational act (they had to lose according to all the rules and calculations) but the will of the nation is so strong that nothing can obstruct it. Ideally, the will of all Georgians should be the building of a strong Georgian state and if the politicians do not want to implement it, we will just change such a government. Moreover, as you know, we have experience of this that amazed the whole world. The important point for us is to have the will to regain our own territories and the political elite will not be too hard to get. They are simply people whom we have hired to protect our will and our interests and when I see that today they are forcibly dispersing people who are asking the government to protect their interests, I am offended and surprised, to put it mildly.
[Rikadze] The opposition is saying that since the president has set the restoration of territorial integrity as the main goal, he has buried democracy.
[Katsitadze] This goal has not been set only by the president; the restoration of territorial integrity is the Georgian nation's order to Saakashvili. This government came to power because of the people's will and not through the intrigues of the "royal court." The Georgian people have entrusted it with the most cherished goal, hope, and dream. During the November rallies, when the people were standing in front of the Parliament building in the cold and rain, I realized that nothing would stop this nation. This people said to the government that it has to return the lost lands and it has to fulfill this demand. In this situation, democracy should not be restricted, on the contrary, it is the only force that can save the country. If the government tries to clip democracy's wings in any way, it will destroy itself. Regaining the territories requires tightening our belts, not restricting democracy. The president has to say: People, the Army needs to be strengthened so we have to tighten our belts; I am sure that he will be understood. Let us refer to the Israeli example again: That country is constantly in a critical situation because all of its neighbors want to destroy it. In spite of this, it has never occurred to anyone in that state to restrict democracy. Restricting democracy is the greatest stupidity and if our government does this, it will become worse than Putin in the neighboring country. I know that many are not very fond of a normal and free country, so they are urging the president: Set democracy aside, Misha [diminutive of Mikheil], take authoritarian power. However, the president's greatest resource is precisely democracy. Saakashvili has to decide for himself who these people are -- enemies or friends. The government is creating the Georgian state based on the mandate we have given it, so it cannot deal with us by using batons. When the government resorts to the use of force, this means that it is afraid of something. However, it should not be afraid of the people who declared so much confidence in it and brought it to lead the country.
Finally, I nevertheless want to end on an optimistic note: The Georgian nation has established itself albeit with great sacrifices and I believe that we will build the Georgian state very soon as well....
===== Nu, zayats, pogodi!
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