From: snit snat
ah.. Welp. for me, it's part and parcel of sexism.
^^^^ CB: The proposition "hetersexuality is sexist" is very problematic. For one thing, "half" of heterosexuals are women. I suppose one might reply that heterosexual men are sexist. Yea, but so are homosexual men. And heterosexual men's sexism does not derive from their preference to have sex with women. In fact, I'd count that as non-sexist. It is pro-women to prefer women for sex.
^^^^^
Kelley:And they're all bound up together, so what does it matter. I don't see class society here, and the 'isms' over there. I didn't think you did either. I mean, I know that there are plenty of liberal and radical feminist theories that tend to do that, but I thought socialist feminism's strength was that it saw them as interlocking systems.
^^^^^ CB: Yes, I see male supremacy, capitalism and racism as interconnected systems. But I don't see heterosexuality as interconnected, mutually reinforcing with these in the way they are interconnected with each other.
Heterosexuality doesn't reinforce or interconnect with capitalism or racism in any special way or more than homosexuality.
As to male supremacy, I can see it "causing" sexualities, but not heterosexuality anymore than homosexuality.
^^^^^^ Kelley: Someone once told me, on an elist, that I needed to get laid. I said; "Everyone needs to get laid, dummy!"
^^^^ CB: Yea, that's the song Bob Dylan should have written.
I would not feel so all afraid.
Everybody must get laid.
^^^^ C: The main critique and change of it has to do with male supremacy, in an overall feminist program. That's a liberation movement too, nothing against gay liberation, just I don't see subordinating heterosexual liberation to homosexual liberation (!)
K: right.
C: Kewl ^^^^^^
CB: Sex acts are mainly about people having orgasms. A variety of "aesthetics"trigger or help different people have orgasms. The conventional hetero aesthetic preference is ok politically.
Kelley:Awwww. now there yer being male supremacist! :) MArilyn Frye has a great piece on this. If yer a lesbian/bi, maybe sex acts aren't always seen as ending with an orgasm!
CB: I'm coming off of years of advice from women that men are male supremacist for _not_ focussing on the woman's orgasm, so I'll choose to respond to those women's demands in this horny dilemma :>)
Kelley: Well, personally, I think all men just need to get fucked in the ass or suck some cock or something. It would do their personalities some good.
(OK> look. 260 hrs of work in three weeks makes me punchy. And fucking horny! Thank the dead guy on a stick that my partner can leave his sister's soon! :)))))))))))))))
^^^^^^^ CB: I had a colonoscopy. That'll have to be it for me. And a Sigmoid-Freud-oscopy.
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CB: Secondly, I haven't quite specified and "quantified" it, but the history and present of oppression of same-sex is not of the same order of magnitude as the big three, a mon avis.
Kelley: Well, I agree w/ Yosh here and Foucauldian inspired analyses of heteronormativity and capitalist development.
CB: I looked for Yoshie's post but can't find it yet. From my standpoint, this is the debate to have again, anew here - especially since Foucault's more general theories are fundamental to the postmodern left.
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Kelley: I agree. I respect anyone's feeling that they were 'born that way'. Just want the same to be extended to those who disagree. I _personally_ wish we could just insist on it being a choice and leave it at that. To me, it's just the most progressive demand. We want to be this way, we like it, we choose it. so fuck all y'all!
CB: Yes, maybe "fuck off , y'all ".
That's kinda how I feel. "I like girrrllls ,only, and I don't give a fuck what y'all think. They like it. We like it. It's ok. I don't care if it's 'normal'. "
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Have much to say about the rest, below. HOWEVER, hurricanes have forced me to put a lot of stuff away for safekeeping. I need to pull some stuff on Foucault because I think his anlaysis is a little more progressive here.
But anyway, Fappy Hucking Friday! I am actually going to NOT WORK this weekend! YAY!
Kelley
^^^^ CB: Yea, hit me with the Foucault stuff when the winds die down.