Wojtek Sokolowski
> CB: How about capitalism is wrong because it necessarily means oppression,
> poverty and war, and now environmental degradation ?
>
Nothing is "wrong" with it, but it is not the same level of critique.
^^^^^ CB: Yes there is something wrong with "it". What are you talking about ? Yes, it's a different level of critique and it's a persuasive level of critique. I feel comforable arguing anytime with somebody who says "oppression, poverty and war are not bad."
^^^^^
Many people like war, I just heard an NPR story about a marine whose leg was badly damaged in Iraq and was very gung ho about recuperating and returning to Iraq. A lot of listeners liked that story. There is a lot of support of "our effort in Iraq."
^^^^
CB: So what ? They are wrong .
^^^^^^
Also many people like degrading the environment - they like hunting and fishing for pleasure, they like sprawl, they want to get rid of the swamps or animals they consider pests. What is more, many people like stopping those considered "undesirables" due to some external characteristic such as skin color, from achieving an equal status - something that you may term "oppression."
^^^^^ CB: Don't you term it "oppression" ?
>>>>>>>>
In short, oppression, war, poverty and environmental degradation are
external critiques of capitalism. Their power depends on people accepting
value systems that underlie those critiques, which as I just argued is not
always the case.
An internal critique showing that capitalism cannot deliver it sown promise (e.g. maximization of utility or benefits) is better because it does not depend on accepting these external values.
Wojtek
^^^^^^^ CB: The inside's the outside in this Cline bottle.
This is "boring" ethical relativism. Of course, judgments of right and wrong depend on people accepting value systems. The "internal critique" you put forth here depends on accepting a value system that says "not delivering on your own promises is bad".
Antiwar values are internal to the system that says treat other people well. For humans , fulfilling self-interest depends on fulfilling the interests of others.