[lbo-talk] Motives of the London bombers

Wojtek Sokolowski sokol at jhu.edu
Mon Aug 8 06:42:04 PDT 2005


Ravi:
> iraq war was a significant motivator of those who carried out the
> bombing and the bombing may (would) not have happened if not for the
> war; and the opposing position to this. various alternatives ranging

So, are you saying that there was no terror bombing prior to war to Iraq?


> true, there is violence everywhere. but it is difficult to see one form
> of violence (in non-western societies/communities) as a response to
> western liberalism (not imperialism) while not so in others. if western
> liberalism is such a castrating force for non-western men, then why not
> so for indian (non-western) immigrants to england, or indian men in
> india itself (as it "westernizes"), etc...

Ravi, I suggest that you read again, and more carefully, what I wrote. The crux of my argument was precisely that the "non-western" violence is of the same nature as the "western" one - albeit it may take different forms: hazing or street gangsterism in the West, or religiously justified violence in the Middle East or India. The argument was that the propensity for gang violence in some men cuts across all cultures - it is grounded in how these people define themselves, their status and their respectability. That propensity, however, can be and usually is channeled by society and powers that be in different ways - in one country it is recruitment to a terrorist organization, in another - to the Marines, or a fraternity - or sometimes it is just a spontaneous activity relatively free of state manipulation e.g. street gangs.

This argument rests on a distinction between excuses and ex post facto rationalizations on the one hand, and causes on the other. I think that the psycho-social disposition is the cause, while ideology and religion are simply rationalizations and cover-ups of these causes.

Wojtek



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