in london, probably there weren't (by muslims). but even if there were, that does not negate my point.
>
>>true, there is violence everywhere. but it is difficult to see one form
>>of violence (in non-western societies/communities) as a response to
>>western liberalism (not imperialism) while not so in others. if western
>>liberalism is such a castrating force for non-western men, then why not
>>so for indian (non-western) immigrants to england, or indian men in
>>india itself (as it "westernizes"), etc...
>
> Ravi, I suggest that you read again, and more carefully, what I wrote. The
> crux of my argument was precisely that the "non-western" violence is of the
> same nature as the "western" one - albeit it may take different forms:
> hazing or street gangsterism in the West, or religiously justified violence
> in the Middle East or India. The argument was that the propensity for gang
> violence in some men cuts across all cultures - it is grounded in how these
> people define themselves, their status and their respectability. That
> propensity, however, can be and usually is channeled by society and powers
> that be in different ways - in one country it is recruitment to a terrorist
> organization, in another - to the Marines, or a fraternity - or sometimes it
> is just a spontaneous activity relatively free of state manipulation e.g.
> street gangs.
>
> This argument rests on a distinction between excuses and ex post facto
> rationalizations on the one hand, and causes on the other. I think that the
> psycho-social disposition is the cause, while ideology and religion are
> simply rationalizations and cover-ups of these causes.
>
the claim (what is cause and what is rationalization) in the last paragraph is what needs further substantiation. one way to approach the question is what we have done: tweak the variables and estimate the results. hence the debate around whether the bombing would have occured minus the invasion.
it has not been denied, at least by me, that various other factors were necessary or at least present in this case, that brought about the bombing.
--ravi