IIRC you had posted something a while ago about the philosophy of science. You will know then that there are no facts, in this case posts, without some preconceived notion or agenda. A basic bootstrapping problem. To say something tremendous is happening is in itself a notion. Couldn't we write something tremendous (in a negative sense) has been happening in India for a long time, where 100s of millions live in abject poverty?
Stories about the various successes of Indian enterprises and the economy in general have to be balanced (and this I believe is the vital role of the left) with those of the less fortunate.
>> but the content deserves better attention. The upshot (as seen in
>> the previous thread) is this: that multiple views exist and are
>> needed to understand reality (politics, culture in India, in this
>> case) is the very reason why Cockburn's [overall correct] opinion
>> needs space for expression and deserves attention, especially in
>> a left mailing list.
>
> Cockburn is woefully off the mark. His glib over-simplifications would
> be amusing if they were not tinged with the pathos of sterility.
>
What would you say of material like this, that you forward as a partial truth:
> Indian tycoon takes balloon to edge of space
I am not criticizing such posts. I am sure you find them interesting for some reason and want to inform LBO of it. Cockburn has his style and material. I think we should stick to the issue of its accuracy:
With regards to that, I believe at least on LBO the only trivial criticism that stuck during that discussion (on LBO) was Cockburn's number on the % of Muslims in Kerala. A large part of his article (http://counterpunch.org/cockburn08062005.html) stands unrefuted, and deals with:
- the issue of farmer suicide in Andhra (and elsewhere) - the reasons and numbers surrounding such suicides - CM Naidu's general profile - qoutes from capitalist Western persons/orgs and bodies about Naidu - quotes from NYT celebrating Naidu - the outcome of the 2004 election - some thoughts on matrimonial ads - an impression of Madras (identified as "Chennai") that is fairly
accurate (apart from the praise of The Hindu or N.Ram) - a melodramatic conclusion about rich decadence and neo-lib policies
Note that the piece is written as a journal or travelogue. Cockburn is showing the other side of the "Indian miracle", the side that Friedman does not write about (AFAIK), to Western readers. You could disagree with his conclusions and assumptions, even some of his data, but he takes trouble to quote material to back up his opinion, he provides facts, and analysis. I find nothing glib about all this.
Over-simplification is IMHO irrelevant. Truth or an approximation of reality emerges from a plurality of viewpoints i.e., such reports: News of billionaire balloon rides and farmer suicides.
While in Delhi I saw the four hour traffic jams and craziness of "Farmhouse weddings". I know quite well what Cockburn is writing about, even in his melodramatic moments, and his critique is appropriate in my book.
Doug (and others) wondered at the rage of one Lacny (IIRC) regarding minorities (black, IIRC), exploitation and the army. To some extent I get the rage (Whenever I read LBO, I reach for my gun? ;-)). When I look at the lives of the poor (and not just the poor, but also the lower middle-class that has been marginalized and pushed out of sight by the boom crowd) and contrast it to the decadent extravagance of the [often newly] privileged (including myself), I find rage and melodrama not too alien a response.
>> The idea implicit in my post is this: At a time when the image of
>> India being promoted (and the opinion available) both internally and
>> abroad is one of a neo-capitalist economic boom (an image that
>> serves Western conservatives quite well), alternate viewpoints and
>> data provide a more nuanced picture.
>
> I am not sure what 'neo-capitalist' means. Nor am I certain that the
> interests of Western conservatives, whoever they may be, are best
> served by projecting India as a vibrant modern economy rather than a
> country of elephants and snake charmers. Today's world is far too
> complex to fit into these simple patterns of causation.
>
The world has always been too complex to fit into any simple pattern of causation or explanation, yes? That has not stopped humans from attempting many. Cockburn gives multiple examples, with quotations, of the Western elite praise for Chandrababu Naidu. Then there are the incoherent bits from Friedman. Some of them (Clinton, Friedman) are not "conservatives" in the US, but they are not leftists.
If I am to be charged with NRI impressionism, the flip side of that coin is that perhaps your response is a bit of knee-jerk nationalism? Indeed, I agree with you that India is going through something exciting, and ideological filters may not do justice to reporting this... that said, I still believe that as leftists we need to compensate, even egregiously, in highlighting the lesser stories.
I am guessing you are on LBO because you have some notion of left principles, issues, attitudes (whatever term is appropriate) and I think further that you have serious thoughts on the matter of India's recent development, its positive and negative side, its liberating and regressive potential, etc. Let us hear your more nuanced views then to flesh out Cockburn's. A synthesis, rather than an antithesis.
> I live in Mumbai, btw. Do drop me a line if you are going to be passing through.
Unfortunately I was in Bombay only to land and depart: All my time was spent in Pune, Bangalore and Delhi. Perhaps next time around, I will have more time,
--ravi
-- If you wish to contact me, you will get my attention faster by substituting "r" for "listmail" in my email address. Thank you!