We're talking about HUSTLER MAGAZINE, let us **please** keep the context in mind.
> > It is my view that men and women should equally
> participate in production and consumption of such
> portrayals and that lack of equal participation in the
> current straight porn industry is a problem.
>
> Agreed. In fact, in all areas of production and
> consumption that affect human lives there should be
> equal production. The fact that such equality does
> not exist in the porn business is not a fault of porn,
> but rather the fault of the patriarchal culture in
> which it is produced.
These are words that sound good only because they are divorced from reality. Indeed it is fundamental conflicts in the making of porn exacerbated to a distorting extent by the patriarchy which makes this utopia of porn equality you seek very unlikely indeed.
> >It seems to me that a critique of porn from the left
> is essential to reform of it, but constructive criticism
> of porn is hard to come by.
>
That's really because porn is evil crap.
> >Children are not recognized as sexual beings who
> have sexual needs of their own, the right to sexual
> expression, etc.
And indeed they should not be. Let children develop their sexual identity with other children in a safe environment that nourishes respect. If they want to play with pictures they all have camera phones these days. That's quite dangerous enough. They are wards, not free individuals and that is exactly as they should be treated.
> But aren't women in the same boat? Might that not
> explain the absence of women-centered porn better
> than some essentialist shibboleth that "men like porn
> and women don't." For me, it seems clear that the
> production of porn is done by those who feel they
> have the right/privilege to express their sexual desires
> as well as the right to have access to representations
> of their fulfillment.
Well, first you have to deal with the fact that men - gay and straight - love porn in the main and most women have little to do with it, despite the ubiquity of all sorts of pornography.
> Women, who historically have been discouraged from
> being vocal about their sexual desires (even among/to
> themselves), are therefore discouraged from claiming
> the right to porn, since such a claim would be indicative
> of independent female desire - a big cultural no-no.
This would be a good point if it was true. Women are constantly encouraged to be shallowly sexual and encouraged by other women. Many women may feel their sexuality is not encouraged but I think the culture clearly does encourage it and accept it publically.
What represents a recent repression of independent female desire in the public sphere.
> > The porn industry is probably better than very
> conservative brands of religions, but it's much worse
> than higher education, to take just two points of
> comparison.
>
> And? Several decades?/centuries? ago it was thought
> bad to educate women -- it could give rise to desires
> in them that were unwomanly. As you point out, some
> progress has been made on that front. But it is just
> another example of society's determination to constrict
> women's desires. The battle for equity in porn is no
> different than the battle for equity in education -- the
> principles are the same; they are merely taking place
> on different playing fields.
These are empty words, again detached from reality. Porn is a business that is necessary but of dubious merit. I mean - of all the things to commodify.... Porn is about masturbation - a purely personal act if ever there was one. If women want porn, and I know of no evidence that there is an unfulfilled market - it is simple to produce.
Society really does discourage gay porn and there is plenty of that, produced by the biggest porn companies.
> boddi sattva writes:
>
> >Porn equality? What the heck would that even be?
>
> That would be porn produced without shame or
> constraint for a wide variety of desires.
If you think that the problem with porn is that it is not "produced without shame," you just don't know anything about porn.
> > Sex work in general reflects the degeneracy of
> pimp culture.
>
> Sex work is not different than any other kind of work.
Indeed, pimp culture is a particularly distilled form of capitalist culture.
> > Think about it, sex work that serves heterosexual
> men is a business in which men have absolutely no
> value to add except to instruct women on what
> porn-loving men will want and to persuade women to
> expose themselves for less money than they should
> be getting.
>
> a) Sex workers comes in all genders and orientations.
Right, but I'm not talking about them - note first sentence above.
> b) sex workers would be much better paid if it was not
> illegal and there were regulations that provided
> protection for both customers and workers.
Agreed, but what does it have to do with the argument?
> > Kinder, gentler porn could conceivably be produced,
> but would men and women who could work together in
> a healthy and productive way ever choose to produce
> porn?
>
> I know many who do.
No you don't, not as far as the main body of porn is concerned.
>
> > Don't cooperation and recirprocal altruism generally
> imply a level of mutual concern and respect that tend to
> encourage more positive endeavors than pornography?
>
> Pornography is very positive. It can help people realize
> that their desires are normal and that there are ways to
> realize them that are not tinged with shame and
> destructiveness. Pornography can also provide an avenue
> for sexual fulfillment when others are closed. The same
> hold true for sex work. I have a friend who is a sex worker
> and most of his clients are older gay men, many of whom
> are married.
>
> These men are not going to leave their wives, so they seek
> sexual fulfillment with sex workers. In an ideal society,
> such work would be regulated to prevent the spread of AIDS
> and other diseases. My friend feels he is doing a great
> service in helping these men have queer sexuality within
> parameters with which they feel comfortable.
>
> He also provides sexual release for men with handicaps and
> others who have no realistic chance of meeting/dating
> someone and finding sexual release that way. All humans
> have sexual desire and for it not to be satisfied can lead to
> many pathologies.
>
> A final note: my friend is in a stable, loving relationship.
> His lover knows what he does and supports it. He has strict
> limits on the type of release he will offer and those clients
> who do not like it are free to shop elsewhere. To me that
> is what sex work and sex workers can be at their best.
I know sex workers too. I don't think that they would say that it is "very positive". It's pretty decent work for the rare individuals who can handle it psychologically.
>
> > Finally, let's get real, do women want more porn? It's
> really not hard to create. Isn't the truth that women don't
> really demonstrate a desire for porn anywhere near what
> men do?
>
> Please refer to my comments about about essentialist
> thinking around the subject of porn.
This "essentialist" business is eyewash. Say what you mean.
boddi