>And the recent comments regarding terrain, with which
>I basically agree, seem to indicate understanding
>rather than antipathy:
donkey dung. we don't understand provacateurs. thus, putting them in the same textual space as newman, pug, etc. isn't about understanding or tolerance.... given that carrol filters pug and has instructed everyone else here and on other lists to do the same, there is not concern with understanding. that's NOT what motivated his comments.
<...>
>And perhaps I differ from Carroll here, but I read
>this as a statement that the people who annoy me
>aren't going away, and perhaps aren't the detractors I
>fear them to be. Hell, at this rate we're all going to
>be labeled provocateurs sooner or later, whether we're
>additionally deemed "caterwaulers" or anything else.
>
>--adx
again, I've already said as much when I pointed out that some people think Yoshie (or me, or this entire list) are embarassing leftists.
second, I am not sure what your claim (they won't go away, it's a permanent terrain) does to improve the situation.
third, i've already provided an example of an embarassing leftist who didn't get his facts right -- Moore -- who, because people caterwauled, changed in response to the crits. i'm sure there are many more. i suspect there's an entire group of people here who are influenced by Doug's exemplary scholarship and, similarly, people who strive for same because they don't want to be shunned by their leftist peers.
so, i'm not really sure what your admonishment to quit bellyaching already accomplishes except as an impotent request that everybody shut up about something you'd rather not read about.
in it's orginal form, the request also suggests that most people involved in these discussions don't understand this terrain or that, when they encounter it, they are so bothered by it, they can't take the heat. exactly who in this conversation has impressed you as unaware of the terrain you describe or so bothered by it they are having some sort of meltdown. name names or Yoshie will try to characterize you as using FAUX SNOOZ tecniques. :p
kelley
"We live under the Confederacy. We're a podunk bunch of swaggering pious hicks."
--Bruce Sterling