[lbo-talk] Terms of Debate was Terrain of Struggle was O'Reilly vs Churchill

[amadeus amadeus]

Hi, everyone,
I'm frankly suprised that folks are rejecting the
abstention from ascribing motives as a reasonable term
of debate. Can we remove ourselves from the situation
at hand and whatever axes we have to grind and ask
ourselves how we can ever really know someone's motive
in stating something or doing something? Apart from
clairvoyance, I  really don't see how that's possible.
I really feel it's best in these debates if we try our
best to take what people say at face value. All we can
really do apart from subjectively ascribing motives is
to then take what that person says and compare it to
our own understanding of the situation on the ground,
as well as compare it to what others have said. And if
they are truly dishonest, they will be exposed by
facts, not by accusations, or accusations of
accusations, etc.

I could care less, for example, if Churchill "meant"
to cause disrespect to 9/11 victims, or if he "had
something to gain" by doing a footnote wrong, or
whatever. What I know is that 9/11 happened, and
Churchill and other academics' careers, livelihoods
and lives themselves are now being threatened. 

Similarly, how much pulp has been wasted by
otherwise-competent historians on amateur psychiatric
diagnoses of Stalin? Or mainstream newsprint on Kim
Jong-Il having a coterie of women and that's why he's
a brutal dictator? 60 Minutes tape on how Saddam
Hussein likes guns? (Are Saddam's 'motives' a
justification for the Iraq War?) Does it matter that
Stalin went to seminary school and was beaten, etc.?
The reality was that 30 million peasants were killed,
and the historico-material conditions were well-laid,
whether Stalin was a conniving idiot or not. I'll
leave the talk of individual responsibility and
personal culpability to right-wing evangelical
conservatives. Oh and Bill Cosby.

best,
--adx

=====
"Mary Poppins is alive and well in Argentina, she sends her regards."
- Rod McKuen, The Mud Kids

		
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