[lbo-talk] Re: Re: _for_ what? (was Stop Flogging <...>)

BklynMagus magcomm at ix.netcom.com
Fri Jan 14 14:34:19 PST 2005


Dear List:

Chuck0 writes:


> A ruckus in the streets would win the planet a better fate.

If by ruckus you mean planned, coordinated demonstrations, I agree. ACT UP staged the most effective ruckuses I have ever been a part of (they were also fabulous).

But people just turning up on the street willy-nilly is counter- productive in my opinion. Just looks like some privileged white boiz and girlz who have too much time on their hands trying to amuse themselves.


> Plenty of reasons to riot . . .

There are always reasons to riot, but the question is: what will tangibly be achieved. To riot just to riot is mere self- indulgence. I have to admit that the only anarchists I have known were skinny ass white boiz living with their parents who seemed to think that "rioting" was some sort of white rite of passsage. As a result my vision may be skewed, but in ACT UP we -- PWA's, PHIVs and our allies -- were staging fabulous protests and we didn't mask our faces, didn't destroy neighborhoods and were able to achieve great victories. What has the anarchist approach achieved lately (being a fellow pragmatist, I am sure you understand my question).


> 1) Operated a progressive website for 10 years which currently
reaches over 150,000 people a month

But is it reaching into Bed-Stuy? Bradhurst? East New York? Or is it only reaching other middle class computer users who can afford to have computers in their homes and internet access?


> Helped organize several large anti-capitalist and anti-war
protests

But what are you for? It is easy to be anti-capitalist, but being anti-capitalist is not a big sell in the hood. I have always found it most appealing to those who are already living well within the system.


> We should promise them more tax cuts.

They do not need more tax cuts.

They need healthcare, food, decent shelter. They are willing to endure the taxes if they have access to basic services. Lowering taxes is the agenda of middle class white folks.


> I don't buy this sob story about overworked Americans.

I do not know how much you have to work to provide for yourself and your family, but I am overworked just providing for Terrance and myself (it is a little easier now that he got a job -- only $6.00 an hour, no benefits, but it helps).


> These folks are making a choice to work their butts off. Their
conscious decision to work all the time not only sabotages their families and their health, but it shortchanges social change movements.

The conscious choice is to keep a roof over TJ's head and mine; to keep some food in the refrigerator and pantry; to pay for TJ's dental work; and (luxury alert) have cable tv and internet access at home. I do not see how working to maintain a modest level of comfort/security is "shortchanging social movements." With respect, do you actually think people with concerns over basic needs are going to have much desire/ability to make ruckuses?


> It's hard to accomplish anything when people are working
overtime so they can buy more cheap plastic crap.

I work to buy necessities. Neither of us spend a lot of money on clothes or such, we try to go to as many free movie preview screenings as we can, and do theater when we can get reduced tickets through tdf.


> Paying the rent is one thing, working your ass off to live in some
suburban mansion filled with plastic crap is another.

But sometimes you have to work your ass off to pay the rent on a small apartment.


> There are many poor people in America, but there aren't exactly
many breadlines.

When you were in NYC Chuck did you happen to go to any outer borough communities, or did you stick to nice, safe sanitized Manhattan below 96th Street?


> When I finish this email I have to go complete two stupid
questionnaires in order to apply to some jobs.

That's tough. You should try applying for a job as a gender non-conforming, young gay black male with dreads (Terrance is so handsome). When you do, get back to me.


> We need people to work less. Abolish work!

But how will we supply basics needs like hospitals and fire departments and maintenance of buildings, etc? Don't exploit workers, yes But abolish work -- it seems impractical (anti-pragmatic/idealistic if you will) to me.


> Fun is important. Movements built around sacrifice aren't
very effective.

This was the attitude that the privileged white boiz/girlz of ACT UP had. They weren't interested in activism unless it was fun. It was one of the things that killed off ACT UP.

Sacrifice is always necessary. We are finite beings in a finite world. We cannot have it all. To experience a gain in one place one must sacrifice in another. Conservation of energy and all that.

Chuck0, you advised Jon to kill off the policeman in his head. Maybe you need to kill off the spoiled white boi in your head who always has his hand out asking for more, but is not willing to work and only wants to have fun.

Brian Dauth Queer Buddhist Resister



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