[lbo-talk] _for_ what? (was Stop Flogging <...>)

Chuck0 chuck at mutualaid.org
Fri Jan 14 17:54:37 PST 2005


John Thornton wrote:


> 150,000 hits or discrete IP addresses? MoveOn certainly reached at least
> that many people either way.

Moveon gets far more traffic than Infoshoo.org gets. It's been in the news alot and it has many liberals and progressives to draw on.

The 150,000 represents the approximate number of unique visitors we get each month. The actual number of hits averages around 7 million a month. I don't know the recent stats because we turned off the stats part of the website. We've been overwhelmed with traffic and have been working on measures to make the site leaner and meaner until we move to new digs. I'd say that mazing out the traffic on a dedciated T1 line means that your website is doing pretty god.


> MoveOn, Media Access Project, and Free Press were instrumental in
> getting the FCC's media ownership rules over-turned by the courts. It
> may not be as sexy as smashing the state but it does matter to most
> progressives anyway. http://www.freepress.net/rules/page.php?n=philly

I think you are being unfair to MAP and Free Press, by equating Moveon with them. That's kind of like saying that ANSWER is the anti-war movement. In reality, Moveon has done very little media reform compared to grassroots activists. And I will point out that Infoshop.org was covering this movement and providing resources before many of these more recent groups existed.


> MoveOn may not be my favorite organization but to say they haven't moved
> anything is inaccurate.

I'll stick by assessment of Moveon.


> The point is, do not to belittle the real contributions of others. The
> above list is fine but what real concrete action has been the result?
> What capitalists entities have withered because of your actions? What
> legislation curtailing the power of the state have you been instrumental
> in passing?

LOL. I'm not telling.

Actually, the net result of my work is hard to quantify. The website is widely respected and it has been a crucial tool for many activists. We've managed to convert oodles of people into anarchists and leftists. We may not have the name recognition of Moveon, but we aren't some off the beaten path website. If anything, I haven't done enough to promote the website and its achievements.


> These are obviously rhetorical questions. You don't have to justify your
> accomplishments to me or anyone else just quit pissing and moaning about
> the worthlessness of others work.

Was I saying that this other work was worthless? I'm just asking why there hasn't been more anger in the streets.


> Now the poor have to be in an actual breadline before Chuck declares
> them officially poor? Perhaps you could work to pass a new Temple wage
> and distance test for the poor. We can call it the ChuckO standard.
> Anyone who meets it is excused but everyone else is obviously just
> trying "to live in some suburban mansion filled with plastic crap" and
> is therefore a lazy ass for not taking to the streets. Come the
> revolution we'll have camps for those fuckers.
> Your disdain for working people is really sad. How someone who claims to
> be a progressive can hold working people in such contempt escapes me.

I don't hold working people in contempt. I am a working person, actually, I don't do much work because nobody will hire me. I don't know if it's because of Google discrimination or outright blacklisting, but I have a curious inability to land *any* kind of work. The libraries won't take me. The temp agencies never have work for me. Hell, even UPS won't take me.

I think I have every right to criticize me fellow working people for their stupid devotion to the work ethic.

Workers of the world, relax!

Chuck



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