> From: frank scott <frank at marin.cc.ca.us>
> >"Weren't many religious Jews opposed to the foundation
> >of Israel, arguing that it preempted the Messiah?"
> >
> indeed...the state of israel is seen as a sin against "g'd" by some,
> especially the neturei karta...
>
> they're the the wonderful folks who would often be photographed with
> arafat...the sight of these orthodox jews with their long black coats,
> black hats and long sideburns (peyot?), arm and arm and smiling with
> yassir the fiend, would drive many "secular" jews up the wall...
>
> you know, the ones, from forest hills, the west side, paris...
I'm not sure why you put "secular" in quotes, but judging by your other comment: http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/pipermail/lbo-talk/Week-of-Mon-20050725/015869.html
you have some real problems with the term. I suggest that you let other people define themselves how they like, and if you don't understand it, that is your problem. There are many different aspects to secular judaism, with lots of internal contradictions and different political views. I'm happy to define myself as a secular Jew, as would I think my family members in Forest Hills and Manhattan. You should not make any assumptions about how their politics (or mine) follow from this self-identification.
Regarding the "wonderful folks" you speak of, take a look at the comments http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com/2005/06/religious-right.html in Mark Elf's excellent blog.
Seth