[lbo-talk] argumentum ad scientiam socialem

Jeffrey Fisher jeff.jfisher at gmail.com
Thu Jun 16 13:39:19 PDT 2005


On 6/16/05, snitsnat <snitilicious at tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> At 11:09 AM 6/16/2005, Jeffrey Fisher wrote:
>
> >more on this in another time. but as a marker: which scientific
> >discipline studies meaning and values? bio? chem? physics? where do
> >meaning and vaues come from? where *should* they come from (and note
> >that's a value question! d'oh!)?
>
>
> hmmmm. i detect some of the scientists disrespect for the humanities coming
> out here -- if you understand , this is, that natural scientists often
> think that social sciences are 'merely' humanities. LOL


:)


>
> In other words, sociology addresses just those questions. Durkheim was ALL

hhm. durkheim. never heard of him. did he study religion?

i kid i kid! ;-)


> about this project. Yadda yadda. We can talk about many more disciplines,
> because sociology doesn't have a corner on the market.
>
> LOL. Seriously (!!), you can't not know how much I busted out laughing to
> see you only list natural sciences as possible sciences that study meaning,
> where values come from, etc. heh.

thank you. i hoped yoou would.


>
> Still giggling and I still love ya, even if you're dissing my discipline
> like the physics folx and the physics=envier folx do! *pout*
>


:-)

HEH

i wondered how long you would let that slide, and figured i would know when you'd really stopped being mad at me when you replied. :)

speaking as someone who was teaching geertz and berger, last semester, i hear you.

however . . .

what discipline produces values (not historical-cultural analysis of values) the way that, say, physics produces atomic bombs? i have the same question for biology: where is the soul covered? nowhere? why not? well, obviously, because it can't study it. so then maybe it needn't make any more claim than that there's nothing there to be studied by biology. that's too much already for a lot of people who want to think their soul is "in" their bodies. where? in your finger? oh, everywhere. i see. so when you lose your finger, what happens to the part of your soul that's in your finger? LOL. it is fun.

anyway, back to the point. are values the result of sociology, psychology, cultural anthropology, etc? i think probably not, right? it's about how values (and other cultural products) are produced in practice, how power flows, institutions, etc. etc. right? more or less? i am not a sociologist (regression analysis -- ick! ;), but i think get the idea?

but if those "social science" disciplines* don't produce values, where do values come from? they do study *that* right? so what's the answer? obviously i have some ideas, right? but i want to hear your answer. is that unfair? should i try first?

j

*(and i am afraid i may be with carrol on this one, too -- i have never liked the division from the humanities; just more scorn for those of us who don't do anything real -- we get it from the psych dept all the time, as if i don't know how to write a survey or understand basic stats because i teach ethics. honestly, i kid you not, we get asked what we do in our religion classes, like "do you teach them how to pray? or what?" i am not kidding you.)



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