John, I was referring to this para from the Green NAzi thread:
"To say that the working class doesn't support as much environmental pollution as do the capitalists is to miss an important point. The destruction is done to create a product and if no market exists for that product, the destruction can't continue for long. The working class always has the choice to avoid working for and purchasing from markets that promote great destruction and instead support less destructive markets. But since lowest price is usually given the greater weight over ethics in such choices, the most destructive of all markets will continue to be supported."
It looks to me as if he's talking about the entire working class. I'm assuming he means Carrol's working class, 99%. He also seemed to be advocating that workers had enough money to make these kinds of choices. He wantst them to stop buying certain kinds of things because the workers can effect environemental improvements with their purchasing habits.
I don't know about you John, but when I was making $35k, I might have had "surplus" but that's only because I didn't buy health insurance. As the study I pointed at the other day said, living in a 900 sf apartment requires a wage of $15/hr. So, if Tully thinks the only people who are not to be excluded from those who have "surplus" are people who are living on min. wage, I beg to differ. if he does not, great. I'd like to know where the cut off is, though, and I'd like to know what his theoretical model is to determine those metrics.
This isn't a sob story, it is tellin' it like it is. I don't think Tully has a clue. If I hadn't cut back on every little thing and shopped at the Bent and Dent and Walmart and only bought groceries on sale, etc etc. I wouldnt' have managed to save any money whatsoever and I'd be effectively screwed right now because the max unemployment down here does NOT equal $15/hr.
I'm glad I was a tightwad the last five years and didn't spend money on "green" products that Tully says will cost more (Bill disagrees). I guess I would hope that, whatever movement Tully put together, he would mention when he asks for sacrifice that he is
1. providing the social movement infrastrucutre to create a support system for the people who,unable to save buying the stuff he wants, are supported while they deal with the vagaries of the economy.
OR 2. put together an equally effective --nay, even MORE effective -- movement to fight for the social safety net we should have. hell, if I had my druthers, it would be a large scale social movement to tear down this fucking juggernaut once and for all.
I have been around one too many Crunchies who don't give a crap about any of that, but they expend all kinds of energy on dolphins. Indeed, they made me feel like I was a loser because I didn't have their stylish all cottom clothes. I lived near Ithaca, maybe that place has a severe case of PMC ChuckleFuckitis, I dunno. I met some good and decent people, but I met a lot more Chucklefucks who thought they were "progressive".
I have gotten over my anger toward them. :)
I was giggling the other day reading Tully saying that he had sooooooo much stuff.
HA! I've been in that boat too. You know why? Because when you;'ve been homeless, you can become a complte packrat. you know what I had boxes of? Stained clothes. I was so petrified that I might have nothing again, that at least I would have stained clothes.
So when I read Tully talking like that, I wonder if he talks like that to people and they snicker like me. He might as well be GWI at the cash register ooohing and ahhhhhhing.
Now, I should probably give Tully the benefit of the doubt. And I'll apologize if I've misrepresented him. But, he didn't even hedge his bets to indicate that he had some semblance of knowledge of what life is like for a lot of people. STUFF is not what my friend M is swimming in. STUFF isnot what people in the old 'hood were swimming in. M, with here four kids, was living in a 900 sf apt with two other adults.
I don't see how they have surplus at all. If they have it, they should be packing it away for medical emergenices, retirement, training costs when they inevtitable get laid off, etc. etc.
My beau, the packrat, has so much STUFF that he got all his STUFF into a smaller camper than Tully used to have. I consider the beau a fucking packrat forchrisake.
Sorry if this sounds angry with you. I'm not. I AM, however, pretty irritated with Tully's assumptions about how we live and the assumption that the only people who don't have surplus are min. wage workers.
Kelley