To which Tully responded:
"To me all these different discussions relate to the need to reduce consumption. Maybe some sorting of each element is needed but I don't think so because they are so inter-related."
and followed with this in another post:
"Since its a given we must consume some, it seems to me that changing our choices of what to consume can make a real difference, as can reducing its levels in any way we can. If that must be given the disparaging label "morally shopping our way to freedom" so be it."
So it looks like I misread Tullys question and Kelley and Carrol were both right on and Tully is concerned with consumption of widgets.
Since this is the topic I'm out. This topic creates a lot of bad juju.
John Thornton