[lbo-talk] The state

Charles Brown cbrown at michiganlegal.org
Wed Mar 30 12:59:04 PST 2005


Charles, birds have hierarchies, dogs live in hierarchical packs and so do most primates. What makes you think that proto-humans did not? Lack of evidence (which is understandable since these groups were non-literate) is not the evidence to the contrary.

^^^^^^ CB: The fun answer is we are not birds or dogs.

The important answer is that disposing of hierarchies ( outside of adult-child) was exactly one of the emergent characteristics of our species differentiating us from other primates ( think about that).

The evidence is based on the comparative method ( I know you know what that is because sociology and anthro are sister disciplines). Modern hunters and gatherers don't have hierarchies, and anthro makes the inference that they are like the societies from the olden days.

^^^^^^

I agree with Justin that we need the state to have all the goods things that we enjoy, and it is even better if the state is a democratic one. Modern statelessness (e.g. in Afghanistan or Ethiopia) will almost certainly result in warlordism of the worst kind rather than hunting and gathering utopia.

Wojtek

^^^^^

CB: In response to one of Tully's questions, and to you and Justin, one of Marxism's presumptions _is_ that human nature is "good". We presume against misanthropy. So, yes we can do it. We humans can live, thrive, build all the modern "conveniences" and more, without guns being held to our heads. And no, we won't naturally start stealing from each other. Greed is learned.

Hey Chuck O ! Here's where Leninists and anarchists agree !

Ethopia and Afghanistan won't do. For one thing, they aren't stateless. The Taliban had a state. Warlords have states. War is a state function. "Lords" are an oppressing and exploiting class.



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