Travis Fast wrote:
>Andie are you drunk?
>
>I advocated from the start an immediate withdrawl, I then said that
>I thought that strategically and morally it was wrong to place any
>more guilt on the shoulders of grunts then on any other member of US
>society. I further argued that inorder to get grunts to take
>responsibility it might be easier if the rest of the society to
>which they belong took their own responsibility for the war rather
>then somehow seeing themselves as insulated and apart from it when
>attempting to engage with would be enlistees or re-enlistees on the
>question of the war.
>
>My respose to Doug was a tongue in cheek response to the question:
>"how far do you think collective responsibility (on the part of US
>citizens) extends? As for the rest of your post go fuck yourself
>you intellectual light weight. Try reading all the posts in the
>thread before climbing on that high horse. I should sue you for
>libel given that you have inverted everything I wrote. Hitchens
>indeed. I expect an apology.
>
>Travis
>
>
>andie nachgeborenen wrote:
>
>>Which, as far as I can tell from your posts, means for
>>you condescendingly morally condemning grunts who are
>>sent into combat and largely do what they're told. I
>>am sure they will appreciate your superior concern,
>>from yuour position of purity, for their moral
>>benightedness, and I wish you luck in preaching the
>>gospel. Doug and I will refuse to condemn them even if
>>they don't refuse to serve or start fragging their
>>officers. In your mind this seem to put advocates of
>>immediate and unconditional withdrawl, like us, in the
>>same league as Hitchens. As liberal democrat, I take
>>umbrage at that (don't worry, kells, I'll put it
>>bnack); I'm not a neocon. Doig can take his own
>>umbrage. I suppose you think of youreself as some sort
>>of Marxist. Youa re in error. You are in fact
>>precisely the kind of high-horse moralist Marx
>>despised. Saving souls indeed. Marxism would have you
>>ask not, what us thew idaelly morally perfect psition
>>to take, but, what attitude and actions will be most
>>effective in opposing imperialism? A liberal democrat
>>like me is a better Marxist tahn you here.
>>
>>--- Travis Fast <mailto:tfast at yorku.ca><tfast at yorku.ca> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Are you now pulling a hitchens? But to answer you
>>>directly: to the max
>>>that is how far it goes. And if the left took this
>>>seriously they would
>>>would descend from the heavens and touch their own
>>>humanity and in so
>>>doing discover the humanity of those they wish to
>>>save. I say unto you
>>>brother repent and see the men and women before you.
>>>
>>>Travis
>>>
>>>Doug Henwood wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Travis Fast wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The point is Yoshie, you can either take the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>approach that the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>average soldier is no more and no less
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>responsible then the average
>>>
>>>
>>>>>AMerican for the war
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Lots of average Americans voted against Bush. Most
>>>>
>>>>
>>>average soldiers
>>>
>>>
>>>>have followed, or would follow, orders to go to
>>>>
>>>>
>>>war. How far does
>>>
>>>
>>>>collective responsbility extend?
>>>>
>>>>Doug
>>>>___________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>__________________________________
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