Actually, legally speaking, the Constitution trumps both laws and treaties (that's the Supremacy Clause), but laws don't trump treaties. Treaties, legally speaking, from a doctrinal point of view, are as much the law of the land as any statute enacted by Congress. In fact, they are enacted, or anyway approved, by Congress. Practically speaking, of course, treaties have a lot less weight in the courts for the reason that the courts, feeling constrained by seperation of power concern, the political question doctrine (namely, don't mess with the Executive or Congress), and the long lease givcn the Executive in foreign affairs, are extremely reluctant to strike down the acts of the Executive in foreign affairs.
And, actually, Congress doesn't make laws that violate treaties "all the time." What examples are you thinking of? Nor does the Executive make laws _at all_, although some administrative agencies have the power delegated to them by Congress to make rules that have the force of law. Again, I'm not sure I can think of a lot of examples where administrative rules violate our treaty obligations. (Actually I can't think of any.) This is different from the Executive _taking actions_ that violate those obligations -- but usually those actions don't go through the rule-making process that would give them the force of law.
jks
--- boddi satva <lbo.boddi at gmail.com> wrote:
> Notice the order in which they are listed:
> constitution then laws then
> treaties.
>
> No accident.
>
> QED
>
> Immoral, yes, and you bear the responsibity for
> sending your troops to
> fight it as much as any citizen. They are your
> agents. But illegal?
> No. You sent your troops to Iraq through a
> well-established legal
> process.
>
> Congress and the administration make laws that are
> found to be treaty
> violations all the time. European countries are
> found to violate the
> treaties that form the EU all the time and that is
> halfway to a
> federal state.
>
> Should American troops revolt because of the
> Canadian softwood lumber
> dispute? Because America was disciplined by the WTO?
> There is a
> well-understood process of law for dealing with
> claims by co-signatory
> powers that we have violated treaty obligations and
> it does not
> include mutiny of soldiers.
>
> Meanwhile, if you can get hold of it I recommend to
> everybody try and
> look at the 2-part episode of the Fred
> Friendly/Columbia U/PBS series
> "Ethics in America" called "Under Orders, Under
> Fire". It works
> through a lot of the ethical issues of the military
> with a host of
> luminaries.
>
>
> boddi
>
>
>
> On 11/28/05, Yoshie Furuhashi <furuhashi.1 at osu.edu>
> wrote:
> > boddi satva lbo.boddi at gmail.com
> > Mon Nov 28 01:07:38 PST 2005:
> >
> >
> > > Yeah, I forgot, Kofi Annan is President and
> Chief Justice of the
> > > Entire World.
> > >
> > > This may be news to you but the UN is not a
> world government and no
> > > reasonable person thinks it is. Did you vote for
> Kofi Annan? I
> > > didn't. How many of the governments represented
> at the UN are even
> > > democratic? How many of them represent the will
> of their people?
> > >
> > > When Kofi Annan says that something is "illegal"
> he's talking
> > > rubbish. What he is actually saying is that
> according to part of
> > > the UN the United States government has violated
> the terms of a
> > > treaty. First, that's hardly the final word on
> the subject. Second,
> > > treaties are not sovereign over elected
> legislatures.
> >
> > Article VI of the United States Constitution says:
> "This
> > Constitution, and the Laws of the United States
> which shall be made
> > in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or
> which shall be made,
> > under the Authority of the United States, shall be
> the supreme Law of
> > the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be
> bound thereby, any
> > Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to
> the Contrary
> > notwithstanding."
> >
> > The Iraq War, which violates the UN Charter to
> which the United
> > States is a signatory, is illegal and immoral.
> >
> > Yoshie Furuhashi
> > <http://montages.blogspot.com>
> > <http://monthlyreview.org>
> > <http://mrzine.org>
> >
> >
> > ___________________________________
> >
>
http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
> >
>
> ___________________________________
>
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