Let's assume I've made a hash of Ravi's argument or ascribed positions to him he does not hold. How would you describe the parameters of the discussion here? Is Ravi saying anything more than "England's crimes don't matter in the larger scheme of things." Am I saying anything less than "they do, and here is why they matter." And I will say why again. Because if folks are serious about wanting to neuter US policy, then we can't make noises that suggest that the tortures actually committed by troops are peccadilloes in comparison to the wantonness of the US occupation. Or that dealing with England ipso facto takers the US off the hook. That will not play. The point is not to deny their importance, nor to single them out as aberrant and exceptional. Of course they are not exceptional--only blatant. The point is to link the specific horrors to the general, not to drive a wedge between them. And that is how I read Doug's writing, too; perhaps unfairly in his case. Because with all the appropriate distance he puts between England and Graner and himself, he writes as if they are the sideshow. Not true? Then why dwell on England's class--based infirmities? Because Leigh makes light of them? Not good enough.
Can we agree that one part of the left's portfolio is to show how Abu Ghraib is no sideshow, any more than was Calley's raid or the Klan's murders in 1964. Sideshow? It's the camel's nose under the circus tent.
Mike Hirsch
At 06:34 PM 9/28/2005, Dennis Claxton wrote:
>>Michael Hirsch wrote:
>>
>> >Think your hands are clean? Arguing (okay, you are not arguing so
>> >much as Ravi is asking) for absolution for Torture Girl
>
>
>I was going to ask where anyone said anything close to this. Then Doug
>asked if you can fucking read, which is much more to the point.
>
>One great thing about a list like this is you can go back and look at what
>people said as many times as you need. Can you go back and find where
>either Doug or Ravi said anything like what you claim here, and then show
>it to the rest of us? I don't think you can.
>
>
>
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